What Christian imagery was in the LOTR movies?

[emel28]

Greetings everyone!

I'm writing a paper on TLotR and Christianity. I would hugely appreciate it if anyone could tell me about elements or symbols of Christianity spotted in the films that aren't in the books. It doesn't have to be only connected with the religion itself, it could also be how some religious things are depicted in the media, a type of "Hollywood Christianity".

I'll give a few examples:

1) The shape that Gandalf's body makes during his fall is not described in the book, while it forms a cross in the film.
2) Gandalf seems to 'let go' and fall in the movie, implying a more willing sacrifice than in the book, something akin to Christ.
3) The 'exorcism' of Theoden in the film is very similar to other exorcisms seen in Hollywood movies down the years.

Note: I am not here to stir up a theological debate. I myself am not a Christian, but have an interest in both Christianity and Tolkien.

Thank you!

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Generally religious discussions are not encouraged on the main Forum, you'll have to wait and see if the mods agree with this one.

But I am a firm Catholic and have read tons of books regarding allegory and applicability of Christianity and Catholicism in Tolkien's works. I would love to share these things with you perhaps in a private message, unless I know that discussions are religion are permitted for this particular post.

@Squint-eyed Southerner , does the rule prohibit these types of discussions?

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

I'd say it's ok as long as it's discussing Tolkien's views and then comparing that between the books and movies. It's more about modern religion/trying to push your religious beliefs on others that we're concerned with. So this discussion should be fine

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Yes, as EA says, speaking generally, discussion of religion is supposed to be limited to Tolkien's views and influences, but since the films exist, discussion of their imagery is allowable.

It's arguments about the merits/demerits of specific religious beliefs we want to avoid. We've had negative experiences here in the past, hence the rule.

 

[Fingon_Findekáno]

This sounds like a very interesting topic to cover for your paper! If I may ask, are you comparing the differences of Christian symbolism between the books and the movies, and how Tolkien incorporated it into the storyline?

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

There could be some elements or symbols of Christianity that are in the books but not in the films. Maybe discussing that would break the rules though!

 

[Fingon_Findekáno]

How would that break the rules? The discussion would merely be focused on elements which are in the books, and comparing/contrasting those which were incorporated into the movies. Christianity does have a part in Tolkien’s writings, and we would just be evaluating how it was used.

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

I thought it was worth checking by asking the question.

 

[Jimbo Baggins]

It’s funny how they say we can’t talk about things when everything counts just as much as anything else. Christianity is based on a cross and all our bodies look like it when our arms are wide open. There’s religion and politics in the books and movies. Everything is related to everything.

 

[Ugluk]

I suspect you would find less Christian imagery carrying through in the films compared with Tolkien's writing. Fleming Rutledge's The Battle for Middle Earth: Tolkien's divine design in the Lord of the Rings might be a useful reference for you. https://www.amazon.com.au/Battle-Middle-earth-Tolkiens-Divine-Design-ebook/dp/B001JEPLFU (also available on Kobo and hard copy if Kindle is not your thing)

 

[Vorondil]

I've noticed quite a few that are in the books but not in the films. I haven't really seen much that is in the films but not the books, apart from the exorcism of Theoden.

 

[Eljorahir]

It might be a stretch to call it a religious moment but maybe: Aragorn holding his sword in this posture just before fighting the orcs on Amon Hen seems a little like a moment of prayer to me.

 

[Ent]

With respect to all, Ent is going to change the title of this thread just a tiny bit to help clarify the approach to it, and the arena within which it can be discussed....
Hopefully that will allay anyone's concerns about how to discuss the subject.

@emel28... let Ent know if his modification misses your intent.

Is your focus on the imagery contained in books and film? Or does it go a little deeper than just the imagery, into some of the statements made and their underlying concepts etc. ?

Currently we see this as limited to incorporated 'imagery'.

 

[Ent]

I've noticed quite a few that are in the books but not in the films.

Beloved @Aethelwulf - Ent thinks @emel28 would likely appreciate it if you list out those you see in the books and/or the films...
would likely help with the paper very much, and help the OP see if there are some currently not considered.
(If you have time of course.)

 

[Jimbo Baggins]

The One Ring is in the shape of a simple circle. Christianity reminds us of how everything comes full circle. For example: if you gain a life (your life) you have to give it away in the end.

 

[Ent]

The One Ring is in the shape of a simple circle.

The other imagery of the ring, of course, is 'marriage', in Tolkien's symbology, the marriage of the Church to the Savior. In the case of the works, it symbolizes Sauron's marriage to his Lord Melkor/Morgoth and his darkness.... Sauron being both 'lord of' and 'slave to' the ring and what it represents.

 

[emel28]

This sounds like a very interesting topic to cover for your paper! If I may ask, are you comparing the differences of Christian symbolism between the books and the movies, and how Tolkien incorporated it into the storyline?

I'm not really comparing the differences, but I would like to know where Christianity "shines through" in the movies where it doesn't in the books.

I suspect you would find less Christian imagery carrying through in the films compared with Tolkien's writing. Fleming Rutledge's The Battle for Middle Earth: Tolkien's divine design in the Lord of the Rings might be a useful reference for you. https://www.amazon.com.au/Battle-Middle-earth-Tolkiens-Divine-Design-ebook/dp/B001JEPLFU (also available on Kobo and hard copy if Kindle is not your thing)

Thanks, I've been reading this one.

With respect to all, Ent is going to change the title of this thread just a tiny bit to help clarify the approach to it, and the arena within which it can be discussed....
Hopefully that will allay anyone's concerns about how to discuss the subject.

@emel28... let Ent know if his modification misses your intent.

Is your focus on the imagery contained in books and film? Or does it go a little deeper than just the imagery, into some of the statements made and their underlying concepts etc. ?

Currently we see this as limited to incorporated 'imagery'.

The title change is fine. The paper is about a lot more than imagery, it's also about Christian symbolism, concepts, values, rituals, etc. that can be found in LotR. I already have a lot of material on the books, but very little on the movies.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

When interpreting imagery or symbols, reaching for the most immediate and familiar is understandable, but can cause us to slip into the facile, as with a "Freudian" interpretation of LOTR I heard many decades ago:
Tolkien feared and hated women;
Wedding rings bind men to women;
Therefore, destroying the Ring symbolically destroys women.

Sounds ridiculous, no? Well, let's take two known facts about Tolkien:
1. He fell in love as a teenager, married as soon as possible, and remained married until separated by death.
2. He was intimately familiar with Norse mythology, making intense study of the Eddas in the original.

Which is more likely to be a source for the symbol of ultimate evil: a wedding ring, or the Jörmungandr, the serpent that grew to encircle the world?

 

[Vorondil]

Beloved @Aethelwulf - Ent thinks @emel28 would likely appreciate it if you list out those you see in the books and/or the films...
would likely help with the paper very much, and help the OP see if there are some currently not considered.
(If you have time of course.)

One of Aragorn's names is Envinyatar which means renewer, and the ''hands of a king, are the hands of a healer'' which both remind me of Christ.
The Ring is like Sin itself, its something you want to get rid of, but can't, it weighs you down, and no one was able to get rid of it by themselves.

The others are not in TLOtR, but in the Silmarillion:
The Numenoreans assailing Aman, is like the Flood and the Tower Of Babel rolled into one.
Melkor's rebellion, is obviously like Satan's rebellion.

 

[Ent]

The paper is about a lot more than imagery, it's also about Christian symbolism, concepts, values, rituals, etc. that can be found in LotR. I already have a lot of material on the books, but very little on the movies.

Good to know, thank you for the clarification.
There is a reason there isn't a lot on the movies... stemming from the different purposes of Tolkien and the movie producers at the core.

That is, Tolkien developed an epic consistent with his intent. The movie producers gave a spectacle consistent with their intent.
There is very little crossover in the intents. And that which does happen is, by and large, purely by accident and due to, say perhaps, the repeating of a quote Tolkien made in the works.

Tolkien infused the works intentionally, The movie producers stumbled upon what few things they stumbled upon accidentally. And one would really need to have read the books to even see and understand the deeper core of the few things.

All that said, if Ent gets a chance he'll review the movies again with an eye to some 5 particular points where he believes comments are made mirroring the works, which could be cited perhaps.