Gondor Calls For Aid

[Andromadus the Invictus]

I'm looking to get a replica of the Horn of Roland for an event, and I know that the Horn of Gondor represents the Horn of Roland. That leads me to my random question:
Does anyone know at what pitch the Horn of Gondor sounds? Specifically the scene where Boromir is being introduced to Mordor's acupuncture.
I'm not in any rush, but I would like to know, thanks!

 

[Ent]

I would suggest the horn was capable of several differing notes, just as a bugle is.
The text does not tell us which particular note/pitch Boromir may have chosen, or if possibly multiple ones.
Given it's spoken of as a 'blast,' it's entirely possible it was either.

The pitch is changed by the positioning (and tightness) of the lips of the mouth.

It was very common in old times for horns to use different pitches/soundings to mean different things. Advance, retreat, help, surrender... others are possible.

We see this with the bugle blown at the end to "Raise the Shire" where we read "then we heard Merry CHANGE THE NOTE, and up went the horn-cry of Buckland, shaking the air: "Awake, Awake, Fear, Fire, Foes...."

One horn call seemed to mean something to all, or perhaps the Shire, where after the change, it became a specific call to Buckland.

Although we do not read of the note changing when Boromir winds it during his acupuncture session, it no doubt had the capability. All we read is the blasts of it 'smote the hills and echoed in the hollows." (other references also do not specifically mention a change in note/pitch... but no horn is without the capability.)

 

[Andromadus the Invictus]

I was unaware that horns could change pitch, thank you! Do you know what note the blast takes form in the Peter Jackson movie adaptation during this scene?
Also, if anyone is curious about who Roland the Paladin was or why he had a horn, I'm more than happy to explain!

 

[Ent]

Do you know what note the blast takes form in the Peter Jackson movie adaptation during this scene?

I believe in PJ's work, he just sounds a single note blast - several times over and over.
"Bwaaaa Bwaaaa Bwaaaa" - but I'd need to listen to it again.

There is, of course, a "basic note range" to any horn, depending on its overall size, inlet and outlet diameters, length, etc. and the varying notes available are dependent to a great degree on its overall structure.

Overall, the bigger the horn the deeper the notes, of course. (Think Tuba vs. Trumpet or French horn; or a B-flat vs. C vs. Bass Clarinet - or an oboe vs. a bassoon. And though those all have keys to assist in pitch/note change, they still have a 'structural feature' to their range and delivery.)

It's difficult to find out from PJ's works what exact 'stuff' was used. We've been researching what plant was used for Athelas, for example... without specific success. I doubt we could find out what the dimensions, construction and range of the horn were, or what single blast the actor managed to produce on it. (He or whoever made the sound on his behalf may not have had the capability to very the note, who knows.)

But 'nothing ventured, nothing gained.'

(p.s. - I only know this stuff because I was a clarinetist and saxophonist in my day - multiple varieties of each. My entings turned out to be more diversified in their instruments than I, including some of the various Horns.)

 

[Andromadus the Invictus]

I'll perform some research of my own and get back to you on the precise pitch once I have completed my journey.
Unrelated, is there an off-topic channel specific to epic poetry?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'll look.

On horn calls, my impression is that, while trumpeters are trained, and chosen for aptitude, most horn calls in Middle-earth, and especially the Shire, would be simple enough for nearly anyone to perform; the "Alarm" at the beginning here is an example:

I'd imagine the Horn-call of Buckland being especially simple, possibly of only two different notes: A-Waaake! A-Waake! Fire! Fear! Foes! A-Waaake!

It seems unlikely that, when Fatty Bolger collapsed hysterical at the nearest neighbor's door, time would have been spent locating a trained bugler.

 

[Ent]

Yes indeed. It is to be remembered too, both the Horn of Boromir and the Horn of Rohan Merry winded to raise the Shire were, in effect, 'horns for battle' - so while able to produce multiple pitches, did not require a great deal of training.

We've no evidence Merry had any specialized training in the use of it... yet he knew how to produce different sounds to some degree.

It would seem many held and knew how to blow horns.
For Rohan: Theodan, after his speach grabbed Guthlaf's horn and "blew such a blast it burst asunder," immediately after which:
"...all the horns in the host were lifted up in music, and the blowing of the horns of Rohan in that hour was like a storm upon the plain and a thunder in the mountains."

Though Kings in those days were much more capable than the leaders of our days, and actually led their men into battle, it's highly doubtful Theoden spent a great deal of time practicing the various calls for the troups. That would have been up to the leaders of the Marks. Yet he knew how to blow..!

Anyway, this is all 'aside'. Unfortunately, we still can't answer the OP question sadly - i.e. 'what pitch was it.'

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

If someone will provide the relevant clip, I -- or someone -- could probably figure it out.

BTW, it took me a while to find the clip with "Alarm"; I was under the mistaken impression it was called "Stand To!". Probably because the call came after the order, in movies I've seen.

Tolkien would have been trained to recognize -- and respond to -- a wide variety of bugle calls: in the Officers Training Corps at King Edward's School, King Edward's Horse at Oxford, and of course in the Lancashire Fusiliers. Still, I doubt he had the more complex ones in mind for use in Middle-earth.

Unrelated, is there an off-topic channel specific to epic poetry?

There's been some discussion in the Quotes thread, as here:

Post in thread 'Non-Tolkien Book Quotes' https://thetolkien.forum/threads/non-tolkien-book-quotes.31245/post-579871

Or, if you want to bring up a specific work you're reading, there's this:

What 📔book are you reading right now?

I'm currently reading LotR (again :D) and The Canterbury Tales, by Chaucer. What about you guys?

thetolkien.forum

 

[LaurelinBearsFruit]

I'm looking to get a replica of the Horn of Roland for an event, and I know that the Horn of Gondor represents the Horn of Roland. That leads me to my random question:
Does anyone know at what pitch the Horn of Gondor sounds? Specifically the scene where Boromir is being introduced to Mordor's acupuncture.
I'm not in any rush, but I would like to know, thanks!

I just want to say that I absolutely love the phrase: "Introduced to Mordor's acupuncture."

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

BTW, Boromir's Horn is available, if anyone's interested.

That's the "Genyuwine,, Officially Licensed" version, and typically expensive, though prices vary wildly; here's one listing:

Officially Licensed Lord of the Rings Horn of Gondor UC3455 by United Cutlery

NobleWares offers Officially Licensed Lord of the Rings Horn of Gondor UC3455 by United Cutlery

www.iloveswords.com

There are knockoffs, of course, as with the swords. Apparently, this one's "playable".

 

[Ent]

That's the "Genyuwine,, Officially Licensed" version,

looks like it's from before it was cloven in two. I would suspect the cloven one is even more pricey.

 

[Ent]

If someone will provide the relevant clip, I -- or someone -- could probably figure it out.

Come to think of it, if played in the vicinity of a pitch machine, it should be able to be sorted out perhaps.

I recall the old pitch machines we used in our Band and Orchestra days.. I would presume today's stuff is quite more advanced than what we had when the forest was younger.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I don't own one -- just figured I could match the notes on some instrument or other I have lying around. Of course, anyone possessing perfect pitch could identify them immediately; I don't.

But on the subject of broken things, you can, believe it or not, buy The Sword That Was Broken, in broken form.

Here's a review:

 

[Ent]

Yes, unfortunately, broken as in PJ's mistakes.
The sword in the text was just broken in two. But well... there you have it.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Yes, all the replicas are taken from the movies.

 

[Andromadus the Invictus]

I just want to say that I absolutely love the phrase: "Introduced to Mordor's acupuncture."

Thank you so much! 🤣

 

[Ent]

Yes, all the replicas are taken from the movies.

yeah. i've found pouting doesn't help, so have abandoned the concept.

 

[Andromadus the Invictus]

yeah. i've found pouting doesn't help, so have abandoned the concept.

I'm relatively new to the community, is there any reason for contempt towards the movies?

 

[Andromadus the Invictus]

Also, I solved the pitch puzzle! The Horn of Gondor, as played in the movie, sounds at a pitch of G3.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Some here are mostly book fans, some mostly movie fans.

And some both. 🙂