Aragorn's Son... the last of the Numenoreans?

[HLGStrider]

In the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, when Aragorn dies he states "I am the last of the Numenoreans and the latest king of the elder days."

Hold on here!!! Last of the Numenoreans? What about Eldarion?

Eldarion's mother was Arwen. If anything, his blood was purer than Aragorn's. Why wouldn't he be a Numenorean? I can understand the latest king of Elder days part. The elder days had ended, but Aragorn's lines had not.

Since I doubt Eldarion's wife was an elf, and probably not as pure blooded Numenorean as Aragorn or his line (they were dying out) I could understand Eldarion being the last of the Numenoreans, but why Aragorn? Was it just some sort of poetic speech in which the son and father are one person?

The thought came to me that Aragorn might've had some sort of strained relationship with his son, but there is no proof of this... in fact, Aragorn calls him a man "full ripe for the kingship" which seems to imply that he is proud of his son, or at least isn't too worried about leaving the throne to him.

Was it just that everything was fading? You'd think blood lines wouldn't be effected by the end of an age...

any comments?

Come on!!! If you don't have an answer just make one up!!! My poor thread is being neglected!!!

 

[Elfarmari]

Arwen is an elf, not a Numenorean. Being part elvish does not mean you are of Numenorean descent. IMHO, Aragorn can say he is the last of the Numenoreans because Eldarion is half elvish (and only have Numenrean). Also, when Elros decided to belong to the race of Men, he became a man. If you looked at his DNA, he would be part elvish, but for all intents and purposes, he was 100% human. The same holds true for Arwen, so I guess technically Eldarian is half Numenorean and half 'other' human.
This just my personal opinion on this topic, and Ido not really have any quotes to back up my arguements. Anyone who knows anything else please post!

 

[Turgon]

In many ways, with death of Aragorn, the Royal House of Numenor, (that is to say of Elros Tar-Minyatur) did come to an end. With Joining of Arwen and Aragorn the houses of Elrond and Elros come back together, bringing closure to the whole half-elf thing. Also with the end of the Third Age, the days of Numenoreans were over, how many pure Dunedain were left to carry on the name of Numenor?

Elfamari your post strikes a chord

...when Elros decided to belong to the race of Men, he became a man. If you looked at his DNA, he would be part elvish, but for all intents and purposes, he was 100% human. The same holds true for Arwen...

I agree Elfamari.

From the Akallabeth
To the Fathers of Men of the three faithful houses rich reward was also given. Eonwe came among them and taught them; and they were given wisdom and power and life more enduring than any others of mortal race have possessed.

Perhaps by the ending of the Elder Days the gift had been revoked, or had been bred out, remember that Gilrean, Aragorn's mother was a pure blooded Dunadan of the royal house too... so maybe Aragorn's long life can be attributed to one of two causes:
1) The pure blood of the Dunedain ran true in his veins.
2) His long life and 'Numenorean death-time choosing thing' were a gift of Valar for the work he did during the war of the Ring.

Anyway, somemore ideas to think about!!!

 

[Gothmog]

Perhaps it has to do with how Aragorn and his son looked at things. Numenor was destroyed many lives of men before the time of Aragorn II, King of Gondor and Arnor.

All the Dunedain (the Numenorians) looked back to the Glory of Numenor before the fall. It may be that Aragorn was the last to do so and that his son the first to look forward to the Glory of the kingdom of Gondor and Arnor renewed. This view would make Aragorn the Last of the old Numenorians and his son the first of the New Kingdoms (Gondor/Arnor).

 

[HLGStrider]

All very good answers...

So was Aragorn a genetic fluke, or perhaps an incredibly gifted personage,

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by HLGStrider
All very good answers...

Yes what i would have said already has been said. I think Aragorn is the last of his kind. Like when Faramir his father denethor have numenorean blood yet his most loved son boromir does not.

 

[HLGStrider]

So the blood isn't genetic? Or can skip generations... That's really cool... I MIGHT HAVE SOME!!!

 

[Elfarmari]

I think it would have to be genetic, some sort of recessive trait, perhaps? I don't know this for a fact, but I think many Dunedain chieftans did not marry women of pure Numenorean blood, and this might have contributed to their shorter life spans etc. Aragorn's parents both had relatively pure Numenorean blood, and therefore he had a longer life span, great skill in healing, and the ability to give up his own life willingly.

 

[HLGStrider]

Gilrean probably had purer blood than Arathorn. I have always admired the relationship she had with her son. She was a fairly young mother, and he was all she had, of course, but I would still consider her an almost heroic figure.

 

[Vardarianna]

I just stumbled across this thread! The closing of the Third Age seemed to be the capstone of the 'elder days', and with the union of Aragorn and Arwen, House Telcontar began the pinnacle of the age of men with the 4th Age? Why he was the 'last is intriguing! I must ponder this further!

 

[Ricardo]

Well, definitely Arwen has nothing to do with Numenor.

And I think that statement by Aragorn is a bit weird. He isn't a Numenorean, he descends from Numenorean across many, many, many generations, I believe that Meneldil, who was Anarion's son and first kind of Gondor after the war of the last alliance, is said to be the last man born in Numenor. Through so many generations it is impossible to say who would be the last Numenorean, in terms of ancestry.

But certainly, Eldarion had Numenorean blood, and the fact that he also had elvish blood doesn't change anything. All the descendants of Elros had elvish blood, after all, Elros and Elrond were half-elves, they all trace back to Thingol, Melian, Finwe, Olwe and the houses of the edain. Eldarion's blood was more pure elvish from his mother, but they all had it.

 

[Valandil]

Interesting. One of Elgee’s old threads. And the frantic posting from the days before social media was so widespread.

Some theories espoused above that I’d like to address - but later. Got to get ready and get on my way to an airport pickup two hours away from here.

Perhaps it has to do with how Aragorn and his son looked at things. Numenor was destroyed many lives of men before the time of Aragorn II, King of Gondor and Arnor.

All the Dunedain (the Numenorians) looked back to the Glory of Numenor before the fall. It may be that Aragorn was the last to do so and that his son the first to look forward to the Glory of the kingdom of Gondor and Arnor renewed. This view would make Aragorn the Last of the old Numenorians and his son the first of the New Kingdoms (Gondor/Arnor).

I think instead of your last statement - that Aragorn was BOTH the Last of the Old Numenoreans, AND the First of the New Kingdoms of the 4th Age.

If you can hear me from 24 years ago.

I think that Aragorn/Elessar views himself as the Last King of the Numenoreans - as a matter of focus. The Land of Numenor fell into the sea over 100 years before the end of the Second Age - and yet the Heritage of Numenor goes unresolved until the King of Elendil's line is restored to the throne, the Enemy Sauron - who brought about Numenor's destruction - has himself been destroyed. The past 3500 years had been a struggle for the Exiles of Numenor, and they clung to their Numenorean Heritage to see their way through those years.

Now - that struggle, at least, is no more. They are re-established and on Middle-Earth. There is no more Numenor, and there is no need for it, and no going back to it, nor looking back to it (as the Palantir at Elostirion has been taken away). The Times have changed.

When Gandalf tells Pippin that the blood of Westernesse runs nearly true in Denethor - I don't think that he IS speaking genetically. I don't think the genetic code of Boromir's flesh and blood differed greatly from Faramir's - more than for any two brothers. Some descendants of Numenor were more attuned to that heritage, some less so. Whether by nature or by their own inclination, interest, or desire.

I think it's easy to exaggerate the effects of Numenoreans marrying those who were not - or how widespread that was. In the north - Arnor, its successor kingdoms, the remnant who lived in fastnesses of the wilds - I think there was not a lot of intermarriage. Maybe more in Rhudaur and Cardolan - but I think not much in Arnor, Arthedain, and those who survived to live in seclusion. There was more in Gondor - but there was still a strong strain of Numenorean in them all. Doesn't JRRT tell us that it was the years in Middle-Earth themselves that gradually transformed those who came from Numenor to become more like those who did not? There was a lot of Numenorean in them.

Through the difficult years - looking back to Numenor gave the Dunedain hope. Hope for a future that looked somewhat like their glorious past - or the best parts of it. A sort of Numenor-longing. When the 3rd Age waned, and the 4th began - they didn't need to look back to Numenor anymore. They had achieved a measure of its former greatness - and achieved it right there on Middle-Earth. Sauron was no more. They were victorious. They no longer had to be so much of a watchful city, on their guard. They had a magnificent City. They had peace - there in the south, and in what must seem like new lands to the north. They had a King again. All was right with the world.

 

[Vardarianna]

They were victorious. They no longer had to be so much of a watchful city, on their guard. They had a magnificent City. They had peace - there in the south, and in what must seem like new lands to the north. They had a King again. All was right with the world.

This was a nice write-up Valandil! Thoughts about the part I quoted from it... I have to wonder if the name of Minas Tirith may have been changed in the 4th age? Maybe changed back to Minas Anor? They were no longer on guard against Mordor. It just set me to thinking.

 

[Valandil]

This was a nice write-up Valandil! Thoughts about the part I quoted from it... I have to wonder if the name of Minas Tirith may have been changed in the 4th age? Maybe changed back to Minas Anor? They were no longer on guard against Mordor. It just set me to thinking.

Thank you!

I started to think the same as I wrote it (since I didn’t bring it up - glad you did!). Who knows? If put to a referendum, would it pass? Or would they be proud of their long years as a City of Guard? Maybe a new name entirely? Have to look it up - what would be “City of Peace”? Or “Tower of Peace”? Though we know that there still was war, the scale was vastly different and it was remote, not local.

Was there even an Elvish WORD for Peace? 😉

 

[Valandil]

Wow - did about three of my posts get combined into one post? Post #12?

That’s okay, I guess. Just surprised me.

 

[Elthir]

Was there even an Elvish WORD for Peace? 😉

Yes, there was!

 

[Ricardo]

I don't think Gondor was completely at peace after Sauron's defeat. It's said that Aragorn and Eomer continue their alliance to bring peace to the realms, I suppose the haradrim and easterlings were still a problem.

And there are some late Tolkien's writings that talk about problems at the end of Eldarion's rule.

 

[Valandil]

I don't think Gondor was completely at peace after Sauron's defeat. It's said that Aragorn and Eomer continue their alliance to bring peace to the realms, I suppose the haradrim and easterlings were still a problem.

And there are some late Tolkien's writings that talk about problems at the end of Eldarion's rule.

Yes, I know. I wrote something along those lines.