As the ghosts of Ptolemy and Newton*** could attest when Copernicus and Einstein (respectively) came on the scene😁And extraordinary claims require exceptional evidence. My (well actually science's) take is that something is only true for the time being until new evidence creates the new true.🙂
If you want the truth from the horse's mouth, you can do no better than to read his "Letters....", and I recommend you read it cover-to-cover.I'm atheist but found the observations in the original video interesting as I often do with such discussion. I am sure given Tolkien's background in Christianity, that he must have encompassed elements of this in his writings but there is always more than one way to view correlation. I am in the process of wading through the wider Tolkien Middle-earth books (such as HOME) and perhaps there is some confirmation from 'the horse's mouth' so to speak within those volumes.
Such analysis as per the video link, does not make it a religious text (to my mind at least) and it certainly does not challenge my general viewpoint on religion.
As for sainthood, what two Tolkien miracles are claimed?
All very interesting though, thanks for posting 🙂
You will find that even in his letters, JRRT occasionally left "unfinished tales". 😄@Deimos I got a copy of letters for my impending birthday.
Oh, I can answer that with absolute certitude.......
As for sainthood, what two Tolkien miracles are claimed?
All very interesting though, thanks for posting 🙂
I do recall that one, now that you mention it😄You will find that even in his letters, JRRT occasionally left "unfinished tales". 😄
Some letters are drafts, and occasionally it's not clear if he actually sent this, or a revised version. I dimly remember one where he went on for two or three pages (in the book - perhaps more?), but ended up sending a very short one basically saying he didn't have time to answer. 😳
Humphrey Carpenter prefaces some letters with lengthy explanations. It's a fascinating read. 🙂
And JRRT does go into how his Catholicism influenced his writing.
Looking forward to reading that book.You will find that even in his letters, JRRT occasionally left "unfinished tales". 😄
Some letters are drafts, and occasionally it's not clear if he actually sent this, or a revised version. I dimly remember one where he went on for two or three pages (in the book - perhaps more?), but ended up sending a very short one basically saying he didn't have time to answer. 😳
Humphrey Carpenter prefaces some letters with lengthy explanations. It's a fascinating read. 🙂
And JRRT does go into how his Catholicism influenced his writing.
I think almost everyone must at some point have done the modern day equivalent of this. A three page rant email which is rapidly deleted letter by letter before being sent and replaced with just the words 'probably not' or similar 🤣. I dimly remember one where he went on for two or three pages (in the book - perhaps more?), but ended up sending a very short one basically saying he didn't have time to answer. 😳
"If Tolkien's story is a synonymous tale with the realities of catholicism"...If Tolkien's story is a synonymous tale with the realities of catholicism, then what should the ring represent...? I see nobody brought this up.
The ring represents the papacy...
The ringwraiths represent the wicked and corrupted cardinals who are working for the enemy, in an attempt to bind the Pope for their true master...
For those who are familiar with catholic eschatology, the satanic force is always trying to get the papacy under its command. If they manage this, the whole church would fall. Tolkien is writing exactly what is happening in the church at the time that it's happening...
"If Tolkien's story is a synonymous tale with the realities of catholicism"...
Ummm, who said that? Certainly not Tolkien. Source(s) please.
1) I am Roman Catholic (cradle Catholic actually), practicing.
1) I am Roman Catholic (cradle Catholic actually), practicing.
I have taught RCIA (aka "convert classes") for 4 years using Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) which any informed Catholic knows is the official compendium of The Doctrines and Dogmas of the Catholic Church. ***
2) I don't agree with the equating of Mordor with Hell, Sauron as Satan, the Ring as representing anything other than, well, The One Ring, etc.
3) You are free to interpret any book, any story, poem, play by any author past or present, in any manner you prefer, but it remains a private interpretation.
4) Still would like to see your source for your stating that "Tolkien's story is a synonymous tale with the realities of catholicism". ****
*** I supplement the current CCC with The Catechism of the Council of Trent and Ludwig Ott's Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma
**** If you are presenting that statement as your own personal opinion regarding the characters, objects, and events of LOTR, then have at it. 😉
Have you read Humphrey Carpenter's (originally) 1981 book "The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien"? JRRT does go into the relationship between his religious beliefs and how they influenced his writing of "The Lord of the Rings" in some of the letters published in this book.
Have you read Humphrey Carpenter's (originally) 1981 book "The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien"? JRRT does go into the relationship between his religious beliefs and how they influenced his writing of "The Lord of the Rings" in some of the letters published in this book.
Just to take up the point of "ring(s) representing": what would the other 19 then represent? The Three for the Elves, the Seven for the Dwarves, and the Nine for Men? 🤔
Have you read Humphrey Carpenter's (originally) 1981 book "The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien"? JRRT does go into the relationship between his religious beliefs and how they influenced his writing of "The Lord of the Rings" in some of the letters published in this book.
Just to take up the point of "ring(s) representing": what would the other 19 then represent? The Three for the Elves, the Seven for the Dwarves, and the Nine for Men? 🤔
Yes.... and the operative word here is "Influenced".Have you read Humphrey Carpenter's (originally) 1981 book "The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien"? JRRT does go into the relationship between his religious beliefs and how they influenced his writing of "The Lord of the Rings" in some of the letters published in this book.
Just to take up the point of "ring(s) representing": what would the other 19 then represent? The Three for the Elves, the Seven for the Dwarves, and the Nine for Men? 🤔
Correct. JRRT's middle-earth was also influenced by his professional area of expertise: Beowulf, the Norse (mainly Icelandic) Eddas and Sagas, some parts of the Arthurian legendarium, ... more personally by his fascination with the Finnish Kalevala, very likely Celtic influences of both Welsh and Irish origin, and even the odd bit of 20th century literature. He might have had very limited sympathy, if at all, for the Venerable Bede's (7th/8th century) contemptuous snort "What has Ingeld to do with Christ?", which could have led to the destruction of several stories similar to the practically sole survivor, Beowulf.But "influenced" (as I assume you are saying) is not synonymous with "represents" (or have I misread you?)
I've given that observation no little consideration (and you aren't the first to posit it); to wit, why would JRRT limit his statement to just Roman Catholicsim to influencing his writing? Why not (as CS Lewis does in his works ) say that Christianity (or Christian Doctrine ) influenced his writing?Correct. JRRT's middle-earth was also influenced by his professional area of expertise: Beowulf, the Norse (mainly Icelandic) Eddas and Sagas, some parts of the Arthurian legendarium, ... more personally by his fascination with the Finnish Kalevala, very likely Celtic influences of both Welsh and Irish origin, and even the odd bit of 20th century literature. He might have had very limited sympathy, if at all, for the Venerable Bede's (7th/8th century) contemptuous snort "What has Ingeld to do with Christ?", which could have led to the destruction of several stories similar to the practically sole survivor, Beowulf.
And as I've posted before, even JRRT himself may have made the error of considering some trains of thought, of ethics, morals ... to be exclusively Roman Catholic. Seriously wrong as far as other Christian denominations are concerned, wrong to various degrees about the other two "Abrahamic" beliefs go, and even wrong for some non-"Abrahamic" belief systems. Here I mean what the respective theologians have worked out, not what the mass of the respective believers actually practice; that can have surprisingly little overlap.
No question that there are doctrinal differences between denominations. Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman (Curial) Catholicism, Protestantism with their sub-groups (all of which, btw, would probably have bee considered heretical by the original followers of Jesus centered around the Twelve Apostles); Sunna and Shia (and sub-groups) in Islam; Theravada, Mahayana, Tibetan (and sub-groups) in Buddhism; and never mind the variations in Hinduism.But many of the doctrines of Islam , not to mention those of the other religions, are anithetical to Christianity, or especially to RC. So there would have been no reason (imo) for him to have acknowleged their influence or contribution.
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