Could Peter Jackson Have Included 👑King Elessar's Passing?

[TrackerOrc]

"In this year on March 1st came at last the Passing of King Elessar. It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king. Then Legolas built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring" (Appendix B)

I like the ending of the trilogy as it is, but I've always felt that it would have been wonderful if PJ had somehow managed to squeeze this in, even perhaps after a scene showing Sam's departure as well?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I don't suppose it would have hurt. I was initially disappointed by episodes left out of the movies.

On reflection, I concluded that the more things PJ left out, the happier I was.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

I doubt PJ, I his "expert" directing could have pulled it off 🤷‍♂️

🧯

 

[Alcuin]

There is actually an “Epilogue” in Sauron Defeated describing Sam, his daughter Elanor, and his wife Rose on Elanor’s fifteenth birthday, seventeen years to the day after the Ring was destroyed. Aragorn and Arwen are coming north to Arnor for a state visit, and Sam is to present himself and his family to them at the Brandywine Bridge. I find the “Epilogue” very touching, but someone – CS Lewis, I imagine, though maybe others as well (poet Hugo Dyson is famous (or infamous) for his ribald exclamation on hearing another reading from Tolkien as he was composing Lord of the Rings) – objected strenuously to its inclusion, and so the book ends rather abruptly with Sam’s, “Well, I’m back.”

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I have to say that in this case, I think he was right.

Even though, as one fantasy author put it, that is "the most heartbreaking line in all of modern fantasy". 😥

 

[Alcuin]

For the life of me, I don’t understand why it’s heartbreaking. I’ve seen other people say that, too. Why is it sad?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

That was said by Michael Swanwick, but as you point out, by others as well.

I'm beat tonight, but will dig up the quote, and his experience with the story, tomorrow.

In the meantime, I think readers live with Sam and Frodo for so long, and see their friendship and devotion to each other develop through hardship and horror, that they envision them being close, for the rest of their lives, in peace, as appears to be on the verge of happening, at Bag End. A Happily Ever After ending.

Alas, it is not to be. "I have been too deeply hurt, Sam". And so the story ends in parting. As so often in life. It presents a ready reply to those who accuse Tolkien of not being "realistic".

For myself, all I can tell you is, by the time I reach the end of the story, I'm in tears. After all these years -- probably more so every time.

 

[Deleted member 12094]

As regards the epilogue, I very much agree with all of you, contradictory though your preferences may be.

The abrupt end in the books is very emotional - at least, it has that strong effect on me too, and as such it is a strong end-line, worthy of the majesty of the entire book(s).

On the other hand I was very happy to discover the existence of this epilogue. I came across it only after I had read LotR at least a half dozen times already, and still enjoy reading it.

Should JRRT have included it or not... I feel divided about, personally.

BTW, this epilogue very much illustrates how the cardinal character in LotR gradually shifts from Frodo onto Sam as the story moves on. This aspect caused discussions before, which of the two was the greater hero. Not sure if I'll find past treads on this, but I think there were several.

The sentimental aspect of this abrupt end-line failed its effect somewhat in the movie version, I think: the tears part was already done at the havens and moreover movie-Rosie never did more than turning beer taps, smiling at Sam, and making children - even faster than in the book, judging from its end.

 

[Elthir]

I like both "endings" -- one for the story -- still awesome, plus Epilogue. And along with other interpretations, I relate Sam's "Well, I'm back" to his (in a sense) "finally" returning from the quest and ready to be whole, considering Frodo's [The Grey Havens]: "Do not be too sad Sam. You cannot be always torn in two."

For me Sam's line is larger, or more open, than that, which makes it both awesome of Tolkien and sad. But again, for myself, that's part of it anyway. Bittersweet. And more.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

movie-Rosie

Rose Cotton as a barmaid -- for me, that's PJ in a nutshell.

 

[Ealdwyn]

For myself, all I can tell you is, by the time I reach the end of the story, I'm in tears. After all these years -- probably more so every time.

I start to get choked up around Many Partings, but by the time I get to that last line I'm a wreck.

 

[Zizzer]

I like both "endings" -- one for the story -- still awesome, plus Epilogue. And along with other interpretations, I relate Sam's "Well, I'm back" to his (in a sense) "finally" returning from the quest and ready to be whole, considering Frodo's [The Grey Havens]: "Do not be too sad Sam. You cannot be always torn in two."

For me Sam's line is larger, or more open, than that, which makes it both awesome of Tolkien and sad. But again, for myself, that's part of it anyway. Bittersweet. And more.

And such a plain, hobbity way to say it!

 

[Tulukastaz]

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
For myself, all I can tell you is, by the time I reach the end of the story, I'm in tears. After all these years -- probably more so every time.

I start to get choked up around Many Partings, but by the time I get to that last line I'm a wreck.

I have shed tears while reading L.R. I think they come on and off variously in the end part of the tale. Tears start somewhere when Frodo and Sam enter Mordor.

 

[Olorgando]

For the life of me, I don’t understand why it’s heartbreaking. I’ve seen other people say that, too. Why is it sad?

Think of the (admittedly much later) "Marvel Universe" films - wall-to-wall rampaging action, is my impression from admittedly limited experience (DC ain't better). JRRT built up the suspense in FoTR, then calmed down in the latter part of RoTK (the books). Perhaps not something adrenaline junkies appreciate.
Frodo lost all that he cared for, due to his multiple wounding. Sam was utterly devoted to Frodo, which very probably distracted from his devotion to Rose. Frodo released him to be free for himself and his own family. And then such a subdued, anticlimactic (in the absolutely best sense of the word) ending. Whatever.

 

[Ealdwyn]

Sam was utterly devoted to Frodo, which very probably distracted from his devotion to Rose. Frodo released him to be free for himself and his own family. And then such a subdued, anticlimactic (in the absolutely best sense of the word) ending.

I'm not cryng, you're crying