Did 🧌Goblins in LOTR Serve 👁️Sauron or Act Independently?

[Old Man Willow]

In "The Hobbit", Goblins are mentioned as living under the Misty Mountains (near where Gollum dwelled). However, in LOTR, nothing more is ever mentioned. Does the Sil or UT talk about if they were just in fact orcs, or were they a separate species? Did they ever fall under the command of any evils such as Sauron or Melkor, or were they just independent terrorors...?

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

They are just smaller orcs. Tolkien doesn't elaborate much more on that. That i know of.

 

[Cian]

The word Goblin is used in LotR, and is used even to refer to the larger nasties found among the slain after Boromirs death.

Tolkien used "hobgoblin" in The Hobbit to refer to the larger kinds.

 

[Gil-Galad]

Tolkien doesn't mention anything about goblins in the Sil and UT,as I can remember.Probably they're not of great importance while orcs are the most of Morgoth and Sauron's soldiers.I think goblins haven't got such population as orcs and that's why they're not mentioned any more.

 

[daisy]

One thing I found as a difference between Hobbit Goblins and the Goblin/orcs seen in LOTR is that the Hobbit goblins had a Grat goblin king type figure whereas the LOTR goblinish orcers seemed more mindless and subservient only to their human masters...although I may be mistaken on that - I also did not find the Hobbit goblins as scary as I did the LOTR versions - although they did eat the ponies in the Hobbit and that was quite sad..... you should pm grond, who may not know this thread exists, because he knows everything about, well, everything and will even look it up for you.

 

[Cian]

Grishnákh is called both an Orc and a goblin in LotR.

Tolkien explained in an intro to The Hobbit that the word "orc" is usually _translated_ 'goblin'.

 

[Beleg Strongbow]

Originally posted by Cian
Grishnákh is called both an Orc and a goblin in LotR.

Tolkien explained in an intro to The Hobbit that the word "orc" is usually _translated_ 'goblin'.

Yes he is. I'm trying to find another example, having trouble though.

 

[Cian]

From "Of the Finding of the Ring" The Fellowship of the Ring:

"The party was assailed by Orcs in a high pass of the Misty mountains as they went towards Wilderland; and so it happened that Bilbo was lost for a while in the black orc-mines deep under the mountains, ..."

... with the help of the ring he escaped from the orc-guards at the gate and rejoined his companions." JRRT

The Hobbit:
"He charged the ranks of the goblins of Mount Gram in the Battle of the Green Fields, ..."

RotK Appendix B:
Bandobras Took defeats an Orc-band in the Northfarthing."

The Hobbit:
"... in the Mines of Moria by Azog the Goblin--"

RotK Appendix A:
"Thereupon Azog came forth, and he was a great Orc with a huge ironclad head, ..."

And huge "Goblins" in The Hobbit:

"... and then came the bodyguard of Bolg*, goblins of huge size with scimitars of steel." The Hobbit

*Bolg son of Azog the goblin/orc

 

[Ancalagon]

I think that Tolkien preferred to use the description of Goblins in The Hobbit because it appealed more to children than Orcs would. Goblins, although ugly and frightening for a child to comprehend, Orcs are altogher more sinister and evil.

When Tolkien moved away from writing The Hobbit, which was primarily a work for his own children, he was seen to markedly enhance the development of his characters. I really feel that it is this simple; Goblins are for children and Orcs are for a more mature generation, probably from teens upwards, in Tolkiens mind.

 

[SpencerC18]

if you go to http://tolkien.cro.net/ it will answer alot of questions you have. It answered alot of mine.