Did Theoden shy away from fighting at Helm's Deep?

[*Lady Aragorn*]

Is it just me, or did Theoden act a little bit wussy? I mean, at Helm's Deep he hardly ever fought.

 

[FoolOfATook]

He certainly seemed more passive than in the book, and even more so when compared to Helm's Deep namesake!

 

[Celebthôl]

yeah, but we dont expect Generals to fight now do we, and didnt he like get stabbed, i can see how PJ is gonna turn this into how he dies in the end, if this is the case i wont be happy....

 

[Niniel]

He was more passive than in the book, I mean Gandalf and Aragorn had to tell him almost everything while in the book he was the one who wanted to fight. Eg. he came with the idea of riding out of Helm's deep instead of Aragorn. But, in both movie and book, he didn't do most of the fighting at Helm's deep himself.

 

[Ithrynluin]

Theoden is my greatest disappointment in TTT. He's nothing like I pictured him, he really is very passive, doesn't have much character, and doesn't show many emotions (except when he buries his son). The actor himself (Bernard Hill) is not bad at all.

 

[LordOfMoria]

In the book, theoden dies right? But didnt hecome back or soemthign and didnt Eomer die as well and come back? or am i just totally confused

 

[Ithrynluin]

You might be a little confused there LordofMoria.

Theoden dies battling on the Pellenor Fields, in the Return of the King.

Eomer doesn't die until much later, and of natural causes.

 

[LordOfMoria]

oh ok
So does eomer get wonded badly then in ROTK

 

[Dáin Ironfoot I]

No... that was Eowyn.

 

[Phee]

Movie Theoden was a bit more passive than book Theoden, but I wouldn't go so far as calling him a wuss. And it's not like they just dumbed him down for no reason. IMO movie Theoden was more passive so that movie Aragorn had to be more aggressive. And in the end they both rode out together, so it's all good IMO.

 

[Odo Proudfoot]

My opinion will go against most others here. I find movie-Theoden a lot less passive than in the book. After his release from Saruman's hold he gets a grip on himself quicker than in the book, where he leans heavily on Gandalf telling him what to do (first to ride out, then to retreat to Helm's Deep). He fights in the Warg Attack, he is actively in charge of organising the defenses of Helm's Deep and takes an active part in the fighting for the gate, whereas in the book he just sits in the Hornburg and leaves others in command of the battle until the last moment.

Odo

 

[lightingstrike]

I think PJ went a little over board on his transformation. He made it seem like Theoden was under Aragorn's control. I didn't like it. He should have made Gandalf's visit a little shorter. Theoden started to make his own decisions after Gandalf left.

 

[Brytta]

PJ's treatment of everything Rohirrimish was done poorly IMHO.

Just think of the Rohirrim as Norsemen of the Middle Ages. The ride horses upon a sea of grass.

Sophisticated in not a word one would use to describe them. Passionate, viril, and fell are words that should come to mind.

Why do the Gondorians like to have the Rohirrim on their side? Because the Gondorians have become more cultured and soft in a way. The Rohirrim on the other hand retain more of the hardy, brave traits of the Three Houses of Men of the First Age.

As Faramir puts it in The Window on the West

Of our lore and manners they have learned what they would, and their lords speak our speech at need; yet for the most part they hold by the ways of their own fathers and to their own memories, and they speak among themselves their own North tongue. And we love them: tall men and fair women, valiant both alike, golden-haired, bright-eyed, and strong; they remind us of the youth of Men, as they were in the Elder Days. Indeed it is said by our lore-masters that they have from of old this affinity with us that they are come from those same Three Houses of Men as were the Númenóreans in their beginning; not from Hador the Goldenhaired, the Elf-friend, maybe, yet from such of his sons and people as went not over Sea into the West, refusing the call.

 

[Éomond]

Originally posted by *Lady Aragorn*
Is it just me, or did Theoden act a little bit wussy? I mean, at Helm's Deep he hardly ever fought.

Ok, think of this, do Presidents or Kings or who ever go to the front lines of battle? No, most every ruler or high person is protect. I did not think he acted like a wussy. Didn't he fight the Wargs? And he fought them the whole time and killed every one that attacked him or he attacked. In Helm's Deep, like I said before, no one really expect Kings, rulers, or President to fight in the very heat of battle, unless it's like a situation in the end of the battle, which I thought him riding (as in the book) out into almost certain death in not wussy.

It's hard to tell for me which one is more pasive. In the book everyone told him to go to safety in Duharrow instead of Helm's Deep, but, he wanted and forced everyone to let him go. In the movie he thinks he's just going to safety, but he fought a bit more, so, yeah. King Théoden is still great in the movie, I liked him, especailly in tthe book.

Brytta: If you watch the movie closey, the Rohirrim are riding horse, except in Helm's Deep, untill the end. And if you get a good pic of Rohan, you'll see grass for mile and/or leagues and/or kilometers.

 

[Goldberry344]

indeed. i love how he ran out to fight, got hurt (an injury similar to Frodo's, and one which would never have stopped aragorn) and then went back in.

 

[Brytta]

Éomond said:

Brytta: If you watch the movie closey, the Rohirrim are riding horse, except in Helm's Deep, untill the end. And if you get a good pic of Rohan, you'll see grass for mile and/or leagues and/or kilometers.

I certainly did see the film (once). The problem I have with PJ's treatment of the Rohirrim has more to do with the depiction of Edoras and its people and other Rohirrim as somber refugees looking for a safe place to hide during the war.

The Rohirrim that I know from the book ride boldly to battle against Saruman and Sauron fully knowing that their cause is bleak, yet, in their hearts they know that they are pledged to support Gondor, hate orcs and the Dark Lord, and will do their upmost (to the last man or woman) to wage war against their enemies.

Perhaps one can argue that PJ's Théoden, though treated differently than by JRRT, is equally as brave. I do not believe you can make the same arguement for PJ's treatment of the Rohan nation.

Cheers.

 

[Éomond]

Well, I did like the Rohirrim more in the book than movie, and I agree with you totally, I was just commenting that they did Ride Horses in the movie, and about as much as in the book.