Do the rings corrupt if 👁️Sauron is without the One Ring?

[ZehnWaters]

Did the rings (besides the Three) have a corrupting effect when Sauron didn't have his One Ring?

 

[ZehnWaters]

We see that the Three can be used. And the Ring of Thrór didn't seem to make its owner greedy (since it couldn't be used to enslave a dwarf).

 

[ZehnWaters]

I suppose Gandalf didn't seem terribly concerned about Bilbo when he thought Bilbo had a lesser ring. He wasn't happy but he didn't intervene until he suspected it was more.

 

[Ent]

A very interesting question. Don't know how I've missed your earlier posts.
I will share my current perspective, then do a little digging, as the rings are of some interest to me.

1. The rings (except the 3) are said to have been 'sullied'* by Sauron. This and its syntax clearly imply the rings, though they at first had power for good in the hands of the elves, once "sullied"* had no power for 'good' or benefit afterward - and had a generally negative bent, at any given time. (At the very least, a defilement would mean it was now given to other than its original purpose - i.e. turned toward 'ugly' in the most literal and simplistic sense.)

2. The Nine certainly never lost their hold on the Mortal Men doomed to die - and Sauron was certainly able to fully control and command them, even without his 'one ring'. As well, the ability to provide them the 'longevity of their lives' without Sauron having the one, was not altered in the least.

3. The above do NOT necessarily mean the rings had an "additional" or "added" corrupting power, when Sauron was absent the One Ring. The Dwarven resistence was natural due to their inherent stubbornness. This COULD mean the inherent 'ugliness' of the sullied rings had limits to which they could corrupt - and that corruption was just enhanced when Sauron wore the One. But most certainly, they were 'corrupted.'

4. And we must remember Gandalf's statement "rings of power have a tendency to look after themselves." So they have an inherent ability of some kind by virtue of their making.

Thus my current perspective, limited by my current lack of knowledge of ALL available things written about the rings, is yes - the rings had a certain bent toward either good or evil, and when worn, could/would exercise that inherent leaning.

* - sullied definition: damaged in purity or integrity: defiled.

I shall now proceed to further research.

 

[ZehnWaters]

A very interesting question. Don't know how I've missed your earlier posts.
I will share my current perspective, then do a little digging, as the rings are of some interest to me.

1. The rings (except the 3) are said to have been 'sullied'* by Sauron. This and its syntax clearly imply the rings, though they at first had power for good in the hands of the elves, once "sullied"* had no power for 'good' or benefit afterward - and had a generally negative bent, at any given time. (At the very least, a defilement would mean it was now given to other than its original purpose - i.e. turned toward 'ugly' in the most literal and simplistic sense.)

2. The Seven certainly never lost their hold on the Mortal Men doomed to die - and Sauron was certainly able to fully control and command them, even without his 'one ring'. As well, the ability to provide them the 'longevity of their lives' without Sauron having the one, was not altered in the least.

The Nine. But yes. Heck, at one point they didn't even have their rings anymore and he STILL controlled them.

3. The above do NOT necessarily mean the rings had an "additional" or "added" corrupting power, when Sauron was absent the One Ring. The Dwarven resistence was natural due to their inherent stubbornness. This COULD mean the inherent 'ugliness' of the sullied rings had limits to which they could corrupt - and that corruption was just enhanced when Sauron wore the One. But most certainly, they were 'corrupted.'

It's interesting. It looks like the kings of Khazad-Dûm had their ring for centuries, though. Perhaps this is what compelled them to dig so deeply and encounter the Balrog?

 

[Ent]

The rings always work on the weaknesses of the bearers. ('Twas Bilbo's weakness brought him into its influence...though he was spared the worst of the potential fate had he continued in possession of it.)

The Dwarves were always susceptible to greed...some more than others of course. Note the great power of the Arkenstone, for example. So greed would be a key element a ring of power would focus on, to weaken and hold its bearer. A ring in the possession of a Dwarf, though its impact may take time to work, would nonetheless do its work in time.

And the rings, should Sauron regain possession of the One, would have a much greater sway over their bearers - even the 3 would fall... since Sauron had poured "the greater part of his power" into it.

Thus the desperate need for the Free Peoples to be ready to take desperate measures to stop him from getting it back.

Interesting it was, they were able to overcome him when he actually had it, in the first place. (Interesting, and dare we say - a bit providential then, too?)

Certainly we are left with the impression the united free peoples, now weaker in every way, would have NO ability to overcome him should he regain it.

But I have a Submission to make along these lines.
Yes, the rings had power. But they worked on the weaknesses their bearers had to begin with.
So it wasn't really - or just - the RING exercising a control. It was the ring seizing OPPORTUNITY given it by its bearer.

This is why the Hobbits could resist so long. (Some of them, anyway.) The opportunities the Hobbits - particularly the ones "meant" to have the One, for example - provided the rings less opportunity to work than say, Gollum - (also a 'hobbit' by background) - provided. He gave the One an immediate inroad, by his heightened selfishness and greed - thus promptly being moved to murder - even before he knew the ring had any power. it was just, in his eyes at the time, a shiny object he wanted - his birthday a ready excuse. (Part of why I see Gollum as quite a bit less a 'victim' than many do. Gollum paid the price for his own selfishness in many, many ways - even though at times he struggled, when he was actually treated kindly - something likely a rarity, both before, and after, his possession of the One.)

 

[Ent]

The Nine

yes thank you. skewed brain while at work. (that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it..! 🤣)

 

[ZehnWaters]

The rings always work on the weaknesses of the bearers. ('Twas Bilbo's weakness brought him into its influence...though he was spared the worst of the potential fate had he continued in possession of it.)

The Dwarves were always susceptible to greed...some more than others of course. Note the great power of the Arkenstone, for example. So greed would be a key element a ring of power would focus on, to weaken and hold its bearer. A ring in the possession of a Dwarf, though its impact may take time to work, would nonetheless do its work in time.

And the rings, should Sauron regain possession of the One, would have a much greater sway over their bearers - even the 3 would fall... since Sauron had poured "the greater part of his power" into it.

Thus the desperate need for the Free Peoples to be ready to take desperate measures to stop him from getting it back.

Interesting it was, they were able to overcome him when he actually had it, in the first place. (Interesting, and dare we say - a bit providential then, too?)

Certainly we are left with the impression the united free peoples, now weaker in every way, would have NO ability to overcome him should he regain it.

But I have a Submission to make along these lines.
Yes, the rings had power. But they worked on the weaknesses their bearers had to begin with.
So it wasn't really - or just - the RING exercising a control. It was the ring seizing OPPORTUNITY given it by its bearer.

This is why the Hobbits could resist so long. (Some of them, anyway.) The opportunities the Hobbits - particularly the ones "meant" to have the One, for example - provided the rings less opportunity to work than say, Gollum - (also a 'hobbit' by background) - provided. He gave the One an immediate inroad, by his heightened selfishness and greed - thus promptly being moved to murder - even before he knew the ring had any power. it was just, in his eyes at the time, a shiny object he wanted - his birthday a ready excuse. (Part of why I see Gollum as quite a bit less a 'victim' than many do. Gollum paid the price for his own selfishness in many, many ways - even though at times he struggled, when he was actually treated kindly - something likely a rarity, both before, and after, his possession of the One.)

I guess I'm just confused by the Ring of Thrór seemed to have such little negative impact for centuries and why Gandalf was so mellow with Bilbo having one.

 

[Ent]

why Gandalf was so mellow

Was Gandalf mellow?
Don't we read somewhere, he had concerns from the beginning? And wasn't it that "possibility" (he wasn't really sure) that sent him on his research of the Lore?

We need also remember there were many Elven rings made of various kinds, many of even far lesser power than the 3, 7 and nine.
Even Saruman made some lesser rings while he was dappling in the craft.

It was some time before Gandalf was even certain Bilbo had a ring, though he suspected.
No, I don't think he was exactly 'mellow.' He exhibited concerns, and "kept his ear to the ground" as some say, watching things. And as he noticed Bilbo didn't seem to age, his concern grew.

the Ring of Thrór

This is a little confusing, and I'll need to look into it a bit more deeply. But it's certain none of the Dwarves' rings did much to aid Sauron in any obvious way. One thing I've always speculated is it was Melkor and Sauron's purpose to pervert, control, and 'own' the work of Eru, and the Dwarves weren't Eru's work, but his allowance.

In any event, I need a bit of (seriously unavailable at present) time, to probe the 7 more closely.

 

[ZehnWaters]

Was Gandalf mellow?
Don't we read somewhere, he had concerns from the beginning? And wasn't it that "possibility" (he wasn't really sure) that sent him on his research of the Lore?

Concerns., but he let Bilbo keep the ring for 60 years.

This is a little confusing, and I'll need to look into it a bit more deeply. But it's certain none of the Dwarves' rings did much to aid Sauron in any obvious way. One thing I've always speculated is it was Melkor and Sauron's purpose to pervert, control, and 'own' the work of Eru, and the Dwarves weren't Eru's work, but his allowance.

That's an interesting thought. It would make sense to some degree, even if Eru adopted them into his work.

In any event, I need a bit of (seriously unavailable at present) time, to probe the 7 more closely.

Oof, I hear that.

 

[Ent]

Concerns., but he let Bilbo keep the ring for 60 years.

True. But not all the rings created and potentially still in existence were 'sullied'. What had Bilbo actually found? We only know of Sauron's tainting of the 7 and the 9. No big reason for 'significant' concern - just reason to be wary. (Which he was.) The majority of the others were most likely Elven in origin, and no reason for concern.