Do You Think Gwaihir's Arrival Was Too Convenient?

[shadowfax_g]

First time he was sent by Radagast, then by Galadriel to deliver Gandalf, but who sent him to the Field of Cormallen? It was unnaturally perfect timing if he just passed by, wasn't it? And if it is so, I think it's a bit too easy way to solve the most crucial situation of the story.

Your comments, please.

 

[Greenwood]

The eagles also arrive at an opportune moment in the Battle of Five Armies at the climax of The Hobbit. Perhaps they can't resist a good fight.

You are right that their arrival is awfully convenient. I don't remember if an explanation is ever give. I do remember that Tolkien was concerned about over using the eagles in his stories for just this sort of reason. I will have to look for the quote, but I think it is in one of his letters where he says something about it.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

The eagles were very watchful. They new that the orcs were gathering for the Battle of Five Armies and were prepared to go to war against them. They also new that great armies were gathering around the black gate. They were again waiting for the battle to start so that they could aid those against Sauron.

 

[Lantarion]

Yes, and if you believe that the Eagles in Middle-Earth are the same Maiar that Manwë sent to Beleriand, or at least their offspring, then it would make perfect sense that the Eagles would want to help the people of Middle-Earth against the overdominating and evil power.

 

[shadowfax_g]

O.K. They are watchful and willing to go anywhere to help people. But why weren't they willing to carry Frodo to Mordor, then?

I cannot help feeling that using the eagles there (Mordor) is like abusing a wild card..

I appreciate any good references of explanation, convincing reasons or Tolkien's comments regarding this matter if there are any.

 

[Gamil Zirak]

Secrecy was the key to getting into Mordor. The air was watched by the winged Nazgul. It would be to great a risk to go into Mordor openly via an eagle. Besides, the eagles are mighty, but are a shadow of their former power. That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Landroval]

Can anyone say "Deus ex Machina"?

 

[Gamil Zirak]

Is that German? It kind of looks like, "Does it Matter?"

 

[Landroval]

To be honest, I don't know its origin, I only know what it means.

 

[Greenwood]

Originally posted by Landroval
Can anyone say "Deus ex Machina"?

For those not familar with the words posted by Landroval they are Latin. From Random House Webster's Dictionary they represent: "any artificial or improbable device resolving the difficulties of a plot".

And yes, Tolkien was aware of the danger of using the Eagles. In his letters (letter 210 of the collected letters) he complains that a "treatment" for a proposed film of LOTR overuses the eagles, placing them in situations where he did not use them in the books. At one point he says: "Here we meet the first intrusion of the Eagles, I think they are a major mistake of Z, and without warrant. The Eagles are a dangerous 'machine'. I have used them sparingly, and that is the absolute limit if their credibility or usefulness."

 

[Turgon]

What 'Deus ex Machina' actually means is 'God in (from) the Machine' it comes from the habit of Greek Dramatists bringing a God into their plays to resolve situations (usually brought on stage using devices such as cranes - a classical example of special effects!!!) that would other wise prove too 'tricky' to resolve... and yes I think the arrival of the eagles is prime example of 'Deus ex Machina'... it's a method used in the writings of such diverse authors as Euripides, Shakespeare, and... Tolkien... (hehehe!)

 

[shadowfax_g]

Thanks Greenwood, for the reference of Tolkien's letter.
I was convinced that the word "Deus ex Machina", though I haven't heard it ever, seems to fit the eagles in this situation. Thank you for enlightening me!

And Shiloh53, you are right. Gwaihir must be too conspicuous to carry the Thing.

 

[Mumak]

Could Gwaihir carry Frodo straight to Orodruin?

I'm thinking about this question since I read LOTR the first time. If Frodo + Ring departed immediately from Rivendell on Gwaihir's back when the Nazgul drowned in River Bruinen (not actually drowned, I know), could Sauron have done anything against it? (OK, the book would be 800 pages shorter and we would have missed a great piece of literature...)

Could Sauron really have done anything against it?

 

[gate7ole]

Re: Could Gwaihir carry Frodo straight to Orodruin?

Originally posted by Mumak
I'm thinking about this question since I read LOTR the first time. If Frodo + Ring departed immediately from Rivendell on Gwaihir's back when the Nazgul drowned in River Bruinen (not actually drowned, I know), could Sauron have done anything against it? (OK, the book would be 800 pages shorter and we would have missed a great piece of literature...)

Could Sauron really have done anything against it?

Well, Sauron is a mighty Maia. He could easily deal with a whole flock of eagles. At that time, Sauron's mind wouldn't be occupied with planning the war with Gondor. Don't forget that an important part in the bending of Sauron's mind away from Frodo and Sam, played the revelation of the heir of Isildur through the palantir.
So, my personal answer to your question is that NO, this plan would lead to complete failure. Secrecy was needed and Gwahir flying to Orodruin would be easily tracked and dealt.

 

[Proudfoots]

Ah, variety is the spice of life....

I simply have to disagree, the winged Nazgul were not unleashed until they could serve as the secret weapon against Gondor...they were not around in any previous battle (the Bridges of Osigilath) they were the 'a bomb' of the battle of Pelennor, but they failed

They would not have been used up patroling the borders of Mordor from winged enemies. The council of Elrond could certainly come up with a suitable diversion to distract Sauron as Frodo winged it to Mordor, if Glorfindel could drive the riders into the river, he certainly had a bit of power, also there were two of the elvish rings siting around the table, if Gandalf and Elrond had decided to reveal themselves at the right moment and try to wrestle some power from Sauron...

Frodo flies over, drops the ring, home in Gondor for dinner

Tolkien could have done it. It just would have sucked

'foots

 

[pohuist]

This was discussed before ad nauseum but Frodo would not be able to drop the Ring just as he wasn't able to do it at the end. He would have claimed it and the Quest would fail as there is no Gollum around.