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Glorfindel's lineage

I dunno Rumil-fast is a relative term, and the only other re-incarnation time we are given (that I can think of) is Feanor- who is still waiting. Finrod we know is already wondering around Lorien with his pops, so it's not like all of the Elves wait forever. The amount of time spent in Mandos is related to how you lived your life- Glory of Gondolin gave his life in a very heroic and selfless manner, so it would make sense that he gets re-incarnated quickly.

Also, adding to the evidence that Glory 1 = Glory 2 is a passage in HoME right as Frodo (probably Bingo) is convalescing in Rivendell- JRRT made a note to the effect of 'Glorfindel tells of past in Gondolin'. This would have been written in the late 1930's, long before the Professor's late essays confirming Glory 1 = Glory 2. Are we to believe that there were two Blonde Elves named Glorfindel in Gondolin, both of which escaped the original sack of the city?
 

Good point Aragil. And we certainly know what that history generally was, as already written at least, and was thus likely to be inside JRRTs head ~ that Laurefindelë had died while fighting the Demon. I wonder how Tolkien would have treated the tale specifically, and just how much of that past he would have (then) 'revealed'. Cheers
 
As far as I know (which isn't too far) there is nothing that can rule Angrod out as the father of Glorfindel.
It would explain his Golden hair, and his being a Noldo.
If he was the son of Angrod he might have been with his father up in Dorthonion, being near Gondolin he may have happend upon it.
I don't have reason to think that Tolkien intended this, but there is no proof against this that I know which should keep one from believing this is they so choose.
One thing that makes it unlikely, as I judge it is this:
It would explain kinship with Turgon, but if Tolkien said that Kinship with Turgon were his reason for going into exile, then surely it would have been said instead that it was kinship with his own father had his father been Angrod or any known elf.
So, if one uses that reason alone as evidence that he is not a son of Angrod, one may as well use it for evidence that he is not a son of any elf that we hear much about.
If that is so, why bother trying to figure the puzzle out anyhow?
So, I say Angrod is as good as any.

Also, I think we can rule Aegnor out based upon what Finrod tells Andreth in Morgoth's Ring.
 
Originally posted by Nóm
As far as I know (which isn't too far) there is nothing that can rule Angrod out as the father of Glorfindel.
It would explain his Golden hair, and his being a Noldo.

If Glorfindel were Angrod's son, does that mean he was born in Valinor or in ME? If the latter, wouldn't it have been strange that he slew the Balrog since his powers weren't "enhanced" by the light of the Blessed Realm? I was under the impression that only the High Elves had the sufficient power to defeat a Balrog.
 
Okay okay okay.................wait.

Finwe - the leader of the Noldor in Valinor (before he was killed by Melkor in formenos)

Finwe had two wives. Miriel was the first, who was a Noldorin Elf, and she is the one who gave birth to Feanor, who we all know had dark hair. Giving birth to Feanor took so much energy out of Miriel that she went to Lorien (the Lorien in Valinor) and eventually passed away.

Indis was Finwe's second wife. She was a VANYAR elf. She is the one that gave birth to Fingolfin (hence him having blonde hair) and Finarfin (he also had blonde hair)

Now, Legolas_lover said that Glorfindel was of the house of Finarfin. We don't exactly know of what relation, but if it was indeed a blood-relation, Indis's blood would indeed be flowing in Glorfindel as well, giving him his blonde hair.

I got this from the Encyclopedia of Arda. Here's a link to it:

http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm

Just look up Glorfindel of Gondolin in the G section.
 
I believe Fingolfin was dark-haired.

I don't think we need to "insert" Glorfindel into one of the royal houses.

Here's a quote from the very first post of this thread:
from Finarfin's entry in the index of the Silmarillion.
'Alone among the Noldorin princes he and his descendants had golden hair, derived from his mother Indis who was a Vanyarin Elf.'

The known princes of the Noldor are Fingon, Turgon, Finrod, Orodreth, Angrod, Aegnor and the 7 sons of Fëanor.

Glorfindel might have simply been the child of a Noldo and a Vanya (hence the golden hair) and a "member" of the people of one of the royal houses (Turgon?).
Or like Tar-E said, he could have been a descendant of Fingolfin's sister.
 
From Enyclopedia of Arda:

The Problem of the Two Glorfindels

With the possible exception of Tom Bombadil's identity (and - of course - the wingedness or otherwise of Balrogs), there is no more hotly debated topic than the ultimate fate of Glorfindel. Were Glorfindel of Gondolin and Glorfindel of Rivendell the same person?

The only real resource we have to answer this question is in The Peoples of Middle-earth (The History of Middle-earth Vol. 12): XIII Last Writings, Glorfindel. Christopher Tolkien dates the notes he gives here at 1972, the year before his father's death.

These notes clear up one question immediately: at the time of the writing of The Lord of the Rings, Glorfindel of Rivendell was not conceived as the same character as Glorfindel of Gondolin. Tolkien says, 'Its use [i.e. the name 'Glorfindel'] in The Lord of the Rings is one of the cases of the somewhat random use of the names found in the older legends ... which escaped reconsideration in the final published form...'.

Tolkien was far from happy with this state of affairs, however, and it seems that he intended to reconcile the problem by uniting the two strands of the story. In summary, the notes tell us that Glorfindel's spirit returned to the Halls of Waiting, but was after a time re-embodied by the Valar. He then returned to Middle-earth (either in the mid-Second Age, or as a companion of the Istari in the Third). For the full story of his return, refer to The Peoples of Middle-earth.

The question of Glorfindel's identity, then, brings us to a much wider, and highly relevant, question. Can we accept a writer's personal notes, whether written in preparation for a published work, or simply for personal satisfaction, as part of that writer's 'canon'?

The importance of this question is highlighted by the essay entitled The Problem of Ros in the same volume of The History of Middle-earth. This is an extensive disposition on the origins and meaning of the syllable ros in names such as Elros. The details need not concern us here: what is relevant is the fact that, after its composition, Tolkien noticed a detail in the published Lord of the Rings that essentially negated the discussion. He dismissed the body of The Problem of Ros with four words; 'most of this fails'.

But what if he had not noticed this inconvenient fact (that Cair Andros had already been interpreted, and disagreed with his conclusions)? What if he had noticed, but had failed to record the fact? Would The Problem of Ros now be considered part of the 'Tolkienian' canon in the way that many regard the notes on Glorfindel? Questions like this show that we cannot simply take such notes on immediate face value.

Despite this, the Glorfindel notes lead many to see his re-embodiment and return to Middle-earth as 'fact' (and not a few have e-mailed us to remind us of this!) The purpose of this rather lengthy aside, though, is to show that we cannot view these 'events' in such concrete terms. This is the reason that the 'two Glorfindels' have separate entries on this site. This is not because we do not believe that Tolkien saw them as different embodiments of the same character (as we have seen, there are strong indications that he did), but simply because there is no definitive, published, proof of this.

Notes
1 The Noldor were normally dark-haired, but the golden hair of the Vanyar was introduced through Indis, a Vanyarin Elf-maiden; hence the descendants of her sons Fingolfin and Finarfin sometimes had golden hair, suggesting that Glorfindel may have come from this noble line.
 
I've read that several times already. You could have just posted a link, Link.
 
well, i did in the one before it, but i didn't know if you had taken the time to read it.
 
Can we accept a writer's personal notes, whether written in preparation for a published work, or simply for personal satisfaction, as part of that writer's 'canon'?

I do, and did just from what is told in HoMe 6 alone, but looking through Glorfindel threads last night I see that much more was said about him. I do take Tolkien's later thought that Gondolin's Glorfindel came back to Middle-earth as fact.

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If he were the son of Angrod, that in it's self says nothing about when/where he was born. Aside from the idea that it seems less likely that Angrod would have had a child during his time in Middle-earth concidering his situation.

Being an exile does though.

Which is why I pointed out that if Tolkien took the thought that he is kin of Turgon and that this is why he went into exile, surely if he thought he was also the son of Angrod (or any well known elf) he would have said so when he mentions kinship with Turgon.
 
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