How are Knowledge and Wisdom Displayed in Tolkien's Works?

[Ent]

Two areas of of the question here:

In Tolkien's works:
1. What character or characters do you feel displayed Knowledge?
How did they display that?
and;
2. What character or characters do you feel displayed Wisdom?
How did they display that?

and:
3. What do you feel the difference between knowledge and wisdom is, and how might it have played into the characters and scenes above, had one vs. the other been employed?


An associated 4th question is:
4. What literary writing means and/or devices did Tolkien use to bring those elements to the fore for the character(s) involved?


Any thoughts here are greatly appreciated.

 

[Deimos]

Aieeeeeee!!!! I'm back in high school! Noooooooooo!!! 😱
(You forgot to say "Show all work." 😄)

 

[Ent]

Well, that IS one answer. Thanks. 😁

 

[Ent]

Aieeeeeee!!!! I'm back in high school! Noooooooooo!!!

By the way, sir Deimos... Ent really didn't intend to make you feel you were being relegated to High School again.

It's just a subject Ent has a great deal of interest in...how people understand and think of the differences, and how they see the differences demonstrated in an authors' works - how the author draws out the differences to make his/her intent and objective clear.

Thought perhaps we could benefit from such a discussion...but from the responses flooding in, it appears others don't see it in quite the same way. So it's on Ent's 'self-study' list of things to pursue now.

 

[Deimos]

Oh, Deimos understands... Deimos was having a little fun is all.
Actually I've already done this on a small scale.
I ask friends (who have read the book, and/or seen the movie), "Who is the protagonist?" "Who is the hero" and such.
But honestly I would not have participated in your thread because (tho' mine was/is on small scale) I was concernnd that this thread would really start sounding like "A class on Tolkien".
It's lots more fun to do this sort of thing (in real life) in the Green Dragon or the Golden Perch (or equivalent).

Question for you (or anyone who cares to take a stab at the answers... hint, the answers are related, that is the metaphysics for both is the same.)
Why did Minas Morgul (née Minas Ithil) have to be destroyed but Orthanc only needed to be "cleansed"?
What is the significance (and horror) of the Mouth of Sauron having forgotten his name?

 

[Goldilocks Gamgee]

To answer Ent's first and second questions up above, I'd say a great contrast between knowledge and wisdom is portrayed in the different, yet similar characters of Saruman and Gandalf. Both are incredibly knowledgeable, but only one of them being truly wise. If the definition of wisdom is applied knowledge, then I think it is obvious that this is something Saruman, especially near the end of his life, lacks. He is still "smart" and has an incredible amount of knowledge and power, but he lowers himself first to the level of treachery (joining Sauron) and then to conquering and destroying the Shire, a harmless and peaceful place.
On the other hand, we have Gandalf, first not quite as powerful as Saruman, but then stronger than him. Now the reason that Saruman got corrupted, and Gandalf did not, is not because Gandalf had more knowledge and thus through the knowledge of good and evil avoided corruption, but because he was wise to see how terrible of a decision joining Sauron would be. At least, that's my take on it.

Similarly, though pure mathematics is fascinating, pursuing it won't get anywhere close to the amount of money you could earn from the pursuit of applied mathematics, such as Computer Science, if this metaphor makes sense.

 

[Ent]

@Goldilocks Gamgee, this is nicely laid out, thank you.
Ent begins to collect some "pondering pieces."

Any other examples you can see are welcomed.

So are any other thoughts on a "who," "how", and any crafty literary devices employed into the bargain, by anyone.

 

[Ent]

Question for you (or anyone who cares to take a stab at the answers... hint, the answers are related, that is the metaphysics for both is the same.)
Why did Minas Morgul (née Minas Ithil) have to be destroyed but Orthanc only needed to be "cleansed"?
What is the significance (and horror) of the Mouth of Sauron having forgotten his name?

Sir Deimos, these are great associated questions. Ent feels they deserve their own thread separate from this, to keep from entanglements and make categorizing and classifying the details easier.

Ent will be happy to take a stab at them, in time. (and collect the responses for review and improvement.)

 

[Eljorahir]

1. What character or characters do you feel displayed the greatest Knowledge?
How did they display that?
and;
2. What character or characters do you feel displayed the greatest Wisdom?
How did they display that?

An associated 3rd question is:
3. What literary writing means and/or devices did Tolkien use to bring those elements to the fore for the character(s) involved?

I'm probably oversimplifying the questions, but I'll take a crack at it (with just a little light-heartedness thrown in for fun), Professor Ent.

1. What character or characters do you feel displayed the greatest Knowledge?
I'll give two: Gandalf and Bilbo.
How did they display that?
Gandalf shared his knowledge verbally with others time and time again: all night talking to Frodo about the history of the Ring etc., many hours talking to the attendees at the Council of Elrond, and on horseback answering many annoying questions he's asked by a bothersome hobbit enroute to Minas Tirith.
Bilbo displayed his knowledge in (perhaps) the best possible way: he wrote a book.
2. What character or characters do you feel displayed the greatest Wisdom?
Gandalf
How did they display that?
Giving advice which, in time, proves to have been good advice I think is a good test of wisdom. Examples of Gandalf's good advice (paraphrasing):
"Frodo, you better leave the Shire with that Ring!"
"Pippin! Don't drop stones in wells. Who knows what you'll wake up in this scary place?"
"Saruman, you're picking the wrong team! Can't you see that?"
"Theoden, it's a bad idea to take someone named "Wormtongue" as your advisor! Snap out of it!"
There's just a few. A full list of Gandalf's advice would be long indeed.
3. What literary writing means and/or devices did Tolkien use to bring those elements to the fore for the character(s) involved?
Character dialog and "the voice of the author" telling the story. (Too general of an answer probably, but I'm finding this question difficult. So, it's the best I could think of.)

If this is one of those classes where students get to grade their own papers, I'll give myself a C+. A lowish grade because my answers are a little superficial, and maybe the questions are searching for something deeper.

 

[Ent]

maybe the questions are searching for something deeper.

Nope. Right on track. These are a couple of characters displaying as you indicate, according to your perceptions of Knowledge and Wisdom.
Just what I'm looking for.
#3 is a bit of a difficult question and takes some thought.

I'm changing the questions from "the greatest" to just "knowledge" and "wisdom" as that's more my interest... people's thoughts on what reflects those two attributes. "the greatest" really isn't the intent.

Thanks for your response.