Rings of Power Stuff

Ent · Aug 24, 2022

Olorgando said:
It may seem so in the few places where opinions can still go head-to-head.
I personally see much huger swaths of humanity being subjected to something for which the German language has the ugly term "Gleichschaltung" ... 👿

Gleichschaltung - interpreted in one place as: "the standardization of political, economic, and social institutions as carried out in authoritarian states"
Appropos in its ultimate and final expression..!! And indeed "opinion" that demands "conformity" is exactly that. "You WILL standardize to MY opinon."

May it never be... and yet... and yet...

But enough of this here. It borders on a political discussion methinks.

Berzelmayr said:
How do you guys like the new wargs? (that means if they are actually wargs at all)

View attachment 15142

Their faces are somewhat reminiscent of those of the Skeksis etc. in The Dark Krystal.

Radaghast · Aug 24, 2022

Berzelmayr said:
How do you guys like the new wargs? (that means if they are actually wargs at all)

View attachment 15142

The design looks pretty awful to me.

arivista · Aug 24, 2022

I don't know, I have always imagined wargs as big, talking wolves, nothing more. It may have been influenced by the fact that wolf in Czech is "vlk" and warg was turned into "vrrk" in the Czech translation. So even the word gave me impression of a warg just as bigger, more ferocious intelligent wolf. Personally I don't see any reason why make them look so different from ordinary wolves. That goes for all movies warg depiction.

Olorgando · Aug 24, 2022

Berzelmayr said:
How do you guys like the new wargs? (that means if they are actually wargs at all)

View attachment 15142

Wargs???
I immediately dug out the DVD I have of the BBC popular science documentary "Walking with Beasts" (2001), and yes, there they are, on the cover, the entelodonts, which went extinct perhaps 19 million years ago. Looking like huge boars (in the BBC episode 3 of the series they are one-ton hulks with the "social graces" of an extremely ill-tempered Tasmanian Devil - which is about the size of a pug), they are more closely related to hippos and whales than to pigs. Well, the LoTR "wargs" looked more like huge ancient hyenas ... looks like PJ's much maligned TH at least managed to make the wargs look more like the wolves they are clearly meant to be than (his own) predecessor and AP's successor. But to get these critters to look so much like entelodonts, someone at Amazon must have at least a passing knowledge of paleontology ...

Ent · Aug 24, 2022

arivista said:
I don't know, I have always imagined wargs as big, talking wolves, nothing more. It may have been influenced by the fact that wolf in Czech is "vlk" and warg was turned into "vrrk" in the Czech translation. So even the word gave me impression of a warg just as bigger, more ferocious intelligent wolf. Personally I don't see any reason why make them look so different from ordinary wolves. That goes for all movies warg depiction.

"But even the wild Wargs (for so the evil wolves over the Edge of the Wild were named) cannot climb trees." The Hobbit

"Then they often got the Wargs to help and shared the plunder with them. Sometimes they rode on wolves like men do on horses. Now it seemed that a great goblin-raid had been planned for that very night. The Wargs had come to meet the goblins and the goblins were late." The Hobbit

‘It is howling with wolf-voices. The Wargs have come west of the Mountains!’ LoTR

I do not know of anywhere else that we have a definition of the Wargs.
Nor do I see that there's a reason to consider them as anything other than "the evil wolves" as they are defined.
Maybe bigger. Certainly given to evil. And said to "run swifter than a pony". (TH).
But that's about it.
They seem equal to Tolkien.

So that's been my impression too...

Radaghast · Aug 24, 2022

arivista said:
I don't know, I have always imagined wargs as big, talking wolves, nothing more. It may have been influenced by the fact that wolf in Czech is "vlk" and warg was turned into "vrrk" in the Czech translation. So even the word gave me impression of a warg just as bigger, more ferocious intelligent wolf. Personally I don't see any reason why make them look so different from ordinary wolves. That goes for all movies warg depiction.

That's all wargs are, evil wolves. And while I appreciate the sentiment of not wanting to cast wolves in an evil light that doesn't excuse the bad design. These make the wargs in PeeJay's movie look halfway decent.

Olorgando said:
Wargs???
I immediately dug out the DVD I have of the BBC popular science documentary "Walking with Beasts" (2001), and yes, there they are, on the cover, the entelodonts, which went extinct perhaps 19 million years ago. Looking like huge boars (in the BBC episode 3 of the series they are one-ton hulks with the "social graces" of an extremely ill-tempered Tasmanian Devil - which is about the size of a pug), they are more closely related to hippos and whales that to pigs. Well, the LoTR "wargs" looked more like huge ancient hyenas ... looks like PJ's much maligned TH at least managed to make the wargs look more like the wolves they are clearly meant to be than (his own) predecessor and AP's successor. But to get these critters to look so much like entelodonts, someone at Amazon must have at least a passing knowledge of paleontology ...

Yes, I can see now these creatures have hooves, like certain extinct predators such as Andrewsarchus or Daenodon.

arivista · Aug 24, 2022

Radaghast said:
And while I appreciate the sentiment of not wanting to cast wolves in an evil light that doesn't excuse the bad design.

I don‘t know, so far the movies have portrayed them as pretty mindless creatures, very animal-like in all aspects. They were „evil“ because they were a threat to the protagonist, but I don‘t think ordinary viewers saw them on the same level of „moral evil“ as is linked with Orcs. They were just used by evil. This is how they seemed to me in the movies.

I don’t think it is that difficult to make wolf-like wargs not seem the same as regular wolves. The size itself helps a lot. Direwolves in GoT looked very wolfy-like, yet I think it was pretty clear they are quite distinctive. (BTW, direwolf in Czech is translated literally as „evilwolf“.)

Ealdwyn · Aug 24, 2022

Olorgando said:
It may seem so in the few places where opinions can still go head-to-head.
I personally see much huger swaths of humanity being subjected to something for which the German language has the ugly term "Gleichschaltung" ... 👿

Indeed. Denying people the right to express their opinions is the first step on a slippery slope.

Ent · Aug 24, 2022

Ealdwyn said:
Indeed. Denying people the right to express their opinions is the first step on a slippery slope.

Indeed. There is a ditch on either side of this road.

To deny the expression of opinion is autocratic.
To insist on conformity to one's opinion is tyrannical.

"What a world, what a world..." (The Wicked Witch of the West in the 1939 version of Wizard of Oz.)

d4rk3lf · Aug 24, 2022

They looked like giant aardvarks to me.

And yes, like Olorgando said, it immediately reminds of the beasts from documentary "Walking with Beasts".
They are actually pretty much identical.

Radaghast · Aug 24, 2022

arivista said:
I don’t think it is that difficult to make wolf-like wargs not seem the same as regular wolves. The size itself helps a lot. Direwolves in GoT looked very wolfy-like, yet I think it was pretty clear they are quite distinctive. (BTW, direwolf in Czech is translated literally as „evilwolf“.)

I agree. I think the designers saw some prehistoric, hooved predator and based this creature, whatever it is, on that.

I think this is a Daenodon skull.

And it's sort of similar to the creatures pictured at top, except the fictional creatures have snouts that look weak and ill-formed.

Erestor Arcamen · Aug 24, 2022

Berzelmayr said:
How do you guys like the new wargs? (that means if they are actually wargs at all)

View attachment 15142

The snout kind of reminds me of Alf 🤣

Squint-eyed Southerner · Aug 24, 2022

Radaghast said:
The design looks pretty awful to me.

As opposed to . . . ?🤔

Radaghast · Aug 24, 2022

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
As opposed to . . . ?🤔
View attachment 15150

That's not a design so much as a concept. A bad one, of course.

Eljorahir · Aug 24, 2022

Berzelmayr said:
How do you guys like the new wargs? (that means if they are actually wargs at all)

View attachment 15142

Cloven hooves, upturned tusks...I thought ferocious wild boar things!

Berzelmayr said:
How do you guys like the new wargs? (that means if they are actually wargs at all)

View attachment 15142

This clip is from the Game Cam on my property in Missouri:

Ent · Aug 24, 2022

Eljorahir said:
Cloven hooves, upturned tusks...I thought ferocious wild boar things!

This clip is from the Game Cam on my property in Missouri:

Yes, it seems possible that the concept behind "Wargs" for this was some kind of corruption between the Canine and the Suidae.
If one looks at the teeth in the mouth of the beast with its jaws hanging open for review, one sees quite an admixture that are neither Suidae nor Canine however, but a mixture almost including those of the human premolars and even molars.

It is an amazing feat, whatever has been done.

Eljorahir · Aug 24, 2022

Well-aged Enting said:
Yes, it seems possible that the concept behind "Wargs" for this was some kind of corruption between the Canine and the Suidae.
If one looks at the teeth in the mouth of the beast with its jaws hanging open for review, one sees quite an admixture that are neither Suidae nor Canine however, but a mixture almost including those of the human premolars and even molars.

It is an amazing feat, whatever has been done.

hmmm...research mode...

Suidae is a family of artiodactyl mammals which are commonly called pigs, hogs or swine.

This forum is quite educational. Thanks!

Ent · Aug 24, 2022

Eljorahir said:
hmmm...research mode...

Suidae is a family of artiodactyl mammals which are commonly called pigs, hogs or swine.

This forum is quite educational. Thanks!

It is why people in days of yore used to call their pigs in for feeding with "Sui" "Sui" "Sui" - though frequently spelled differently. (As "suey, suey, suey".)

And I guess to take it one step further, the tusks of the pictured 'wargs' are not very pronounced... more in line with the common hog of the Suidae family, than of the Boar/Wild Boar group which are quite pronounced.

Now there's some additional trivia for the trash bin..! ☺️

Halasían · Aug 26, 2022

And now this from that paid Amazon Shill Neil Gaiman...

Ealdwyn · Aug 26, 2022

Halasían said:
And now this from that paid Amazon Shill Neil Gaiman...

So it was "fun" and the sort of thing he wanted as a schoolboy. Hmmm.

As for a shill: I have a lot of respect for NG, but let's not forget that he's been on the Amaz*n payroll in the past and probably will be again.

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