Samwise Gamgee

Thorondor_ · Jun 13, 2005

What do you mean?

There are three layers of violence:

- direct: hitting and the likes;
- institutional: prohibiting certain rights to certain people;
- cultural (the basis of all violence): believing that certain persons are inferior to you in certain aspects, because of their race, gender, religion, etc.

You believing that Sam is not clever because he is a hobbit is something like cultural violence

The hobbits aren't as smart as the other races. You know: they don't like machines,

Tolkien would shoot you for saying that . He is against machines too, esspecially when machines destroy nature.

Ingwë · Jun 13, 2005

You believing that Sam is not clever because he is a hobbit is something like cultural violence

Well, you think so He is not as clever as the other hobbits. And they aren't much clever so he Sam is not very clever. But mind it! he is not stupid and he show it in the journey from Mordor.

Greenwood · Jun 13, 2005

Ingwë said:
The hobbits aren't as smart as the other races. You know: they don't like machines, they are interested only about things copncerning the Shire and their relations. And not as smart as those who aren't smart is not very clever.

You are confusing technology with intelligence. Aristotle lived in what would now be considered a technologically backward time but is also considered one of the most brilliant minds that ever lived.

Ingwë · Jun 13, 2005

I don't mean only their technology. I mean their character, their mind, they don't need information about the world outside their Shire. They afraid the water and they think the other hobbits strange if they talk with Gandalf, Dwarves, etc. You know

Greenwood · Jun 13, 2005

Ingwë said:
I don't mean only their technology. I mean their character, their mind, they don't need information about the world outside their Shire. They afraid the water and they think the other hobbits strange if they talk with Gandalf, Dwarves, etc. You know

But none of that means that they aren't clever or smart. In English they would be described as provincial or insular. They could also be called isolationist. None of it has anything to do with intelligence.

Ingwë · Jun 13, 2005

Yes, but is there any information about Hobbits and lore? Maths, books like the Men and the Elves. I know about Bilbo's book and the hobbits songs.

Alatar · Jun 13, 2005

It is implied many times that sam is not that intelligent and tolkein did this to show that not all heros arwe intelligent, and about the troubled veiws of the intelligent people, the creators of the A bomb were realy simple by not thinking ahead to what it would be used for. Tolkein said somthing like this in his letters.

Thorondor_ · Jun 13, 2005

Alatar said:
It is implied many times that sam is not that intelligent and tolkein did this to show that not all heros arwe intelligent, and about the troubled veiws of the intelligent people, the creators of the A bomb were realy simple by not thinking ahead to what it would be used for. Tolkein said somthing like this in his letters.

Where is it implied that Sam is not that intelligent? (I am having a deja-vu feeling.)
And are you comparing Sam's simplicity with the alleged simplicity of the creators of the A bomb?

Meselyn · Jun 13, 2005

Is he clever?! Yes he's clever. He could see right through Gollum when Frodo could not. If it were not for sam. Frodo might have been killed, and the ring in Saurons possesion. He didn't have to remain in rivendell. He might have considered it, but he kept his promise to Gandalf to go with Frodo to the end. In my opinion Sam was one very wise Hobbitt.

Ingwë · Jun 13, 2005

He could see right through Gollum when Frodo could not. If it were not for Sam Frodo might have been killed, and the Ring in Saurons possesion. He didn't have to remain in rivendell. He might have considered it, but he kept his promise to Gandalf to go with Frodo to the end. In my opinion Sam was one very wise Hobbit.

He could see right but Gollum helped Frodo to destroy the One Ring though Gollum wanted to kill Frodo. I think Sam is a loyal friend, he would do anything for his master. Yes, I agree he mustn't remain in Rivendell because Frodo would get plucked.

Alatar · Jun 13, 2005

Throdor i mean that sometimes it is the itelligent people who do the stupid things and that simple people can use there sence to see what is infront of them, like with gollum.

Thorondor_ · Jun 13, 2005

I presume you are reffering to me (although you pretty much messed up the username). Can you please rephrase your post also, I don't make much of it.

Barliman Butterbur · Jun 13, 2005

Alatar said:
...sometimes it is the intelligent people who do the stupid things...

Alatar, I take my hat off to you! **tips hat** You understand something at age 13 that a fair number of grownups never learn: It takes an intelligent person to do something really stupid.

Barley

Greenwood · Jun 14, 2005

Barliman Butterbur said:
It takes an intelligent person to do something really stupid.

Barley

Too true!

But do you know why it is so hard to make something foolproof? It is because fools are so damn clever!

Samwise Gamgee

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