S01 Season 1 Episode 6: Udûn Breakdown

d4rk3lf · Oct 1, 2022

Elthir said:
What? Who? Pompeii? Water key. No lever? Where? Cool ash? But fire! Eye blood! Uruk! Uruk!

Why? When. Horse? Ouch! Fine. Pompeii? Water. Big ork! No weapon? Water apple. Water pizza. Why?

Squint-eyed Southerner said:
This may be Elthir's most coherent post ever.

In comparison to ROP creators, he delivers his message in a clear, consistent way, while maintaining interesting twist, and epic finale.
----------------

About episode:
I won't be blinded by the FX (volcano explosion) that looked worse, then very similar scene in the 2012 movie, from 2009.
The battle was too long, and they suddenly wanted to introduce gore, and it was a bad call, because I didn't cared for characters.
Oh, and my favorite "smart" sentence gotta be when Galadriel said to Isildur: "despise not the labors which humbles the heart".
-
On a big picture, it is very underwhelming that all these great leaders from second age (possibly including Sauron) are all gathered for some tiny battle that have several hundreds participant in total, and small village.

Ent · Oct 1, 2022

ZehnWaters said:
The only reason someone could dislike it is intolerance?

No,no. I don’t speak of either like or dislike. I speak of the predilection to choose a position based on whatever our criteria are for formulating our opinion, positive or negative, then insisting on agreement with our choice. This is the intolerance.

Society today is far more rampantly polarized than it has been in centuries…over just about any matter that comes to hand. There are few “tweeners” on anything.

Ugluk · Oct 1, 2022

ZehnWaters said:
The only reason someone could dislike it is intolerance?

I think that is the line being pushed by many of the apologists for it.

ZehnWaters · Oct 1, 2022

Ugluk said:
I think that is the line being pushed by many of the apologists for it.

Sadly that has been my experience, I'm sorry @The Enting if I'm sensitive because of it.

Ent · Oct 1, 2022

Ugluk said:
I think that is the line being pushed by many of the apologists for it

No doubt many are. But not what I was referring to at all… just to be clear.

ZehnWaters said:
I'm sorry @The Enting if I'm sensitive because of it

No “sorrys” needed. Good to clarify..!!!

ZehnWaters · Oct 1, 2022

The Enting said:
No “sorrys” needed. Good to clarify..!!!

Elthir · Oct 1, 2022

d4rk3lf said:
In comparison to ROP creators, he delivers his message in a clear, consistent way, while maintaining interesting twist, and epic finale.

LOL!

May be I'll be come a write er of wurds!

Rivendell_librarian · Oct 2, 2022

Goldilocks Gamgee said:
I'm a little behind all of you on watching the episodes, but I just finished and wow! That was... I'm not sure how to phrase it.
They definitely stole Sam's line of "It is only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass." and remodeled it into Bronwyn's line to Theo.
The CGI was tremendous! The erupting volcano, the water rushing...! I loved that part. Also, the battle scene! Glorious. I was kind of hoping to find Rowan alive, but ah, well.
What was kind of stupid, was how Bronwyn survived. Like, every single other character die when they're hit by an arrow, and everyone ignores it. But when Bronwyn is pierced through (it comes out on the other side!) and yet survives. I mean, Bronwyn is one of the only characters I like in this show: killing her off might have been a very emotional scene!
Other than that, I think this was a pretty okay episode, all in all.

Yes, Bronwyn is my favourite female character in this.

Goldilocks Gamgee · Oct 2, 2022

Annatar said:
This episode was no better than the last.
The most evil creatures of Middle-earth, i.e. the Harfoots, fortunately did not appear at all this time, and nothing was said about the (inverted) Elven kryptonite Mithril, but it was still all catastrophically bad and had absolutely nothing in common with Tolkien or the sublime, grandiose spirit that resonates between the lines of his works. I don't even feel like going into the details in an ironic way anymore (at least not here, unless there's an explicit demand) because it's actually all so obvious, at least to those who aren't completely hollow inside.
After the absolute disregard for Tolkien lore in the last episode, this time there was just more garbage, although I thought it couldn't get any worse. But even if you don't know Tolkien: this was just all badly done. How can you be satisfied with such crap? Don't you have the slightest expectation of a sophisticated and entertaining series that doesn't insult your intellect? How can you be so jaded?

Unless the showrunners and writers are changed for season 2, you can forget this series for good.

In the end, you can only make fun of this series or get upset about it. Here I chose the latter, although I usually prefer the other way...

What's a nice symbol for this terrible episode: the apple; from which once Isildur bites and once the horse, and then again Isildur, and then he throws the apple into the sea...
After this episode, you have to seriously wonder if the plot wasn't dreamed up by an AI rather than a human.

I actually like the Mithril story. Sure, it's as far from Tolkien as it gets, but I have long forsaken any hope of having it be similar. And, the theory that it's this need for mithril that prompts the Elves to make the Rings of Power is something I find very interesting.

The apple thing was just bad hygiene, I think. Like, the saliva from the horse inadvertently getting onto it, and then Isildur bites it? That was awkward to watch.

Ent · Oct 3, 2022

Goldilocks Gamgee said:
I have long forsaken any hope of having it be similar

Indeed, if we can just grasp that RoP is pure fanfic and think of it as existing in that category, we've 'got it'.

Goldilocks Gamgee said:
awkward

Nice choice of word. I had thought of a couple others...

ZehnWaters · Oct 3, 2022

The Enting said:
Indeed, if we can just grasp that RoP is pure fanfic and think of it as existing in that category, we've 'got it'.

That still doesn't make it..."good".

Goldilocks Gamgee said:
I actually like the Mithril story. Sure, it's as far from Tolkien as it gets, but I have long forsaken any hope of having it be similar. And, the theory that it's this need for mithril that prompts the Elves to make the Rings of Power is something I find very interesting.

Yeah, that's what I thought as well. They're over a thousand years too late to that, though.

Ent · Oct 3, 2022

ZehnWaters said:
That still doesn't make it..."good".

You're absolutely right. The statement is absolutely neutral.
It's just a helpful tool for the mind working to separate itself from a representation of 'the world of Tolkien' vs. a representation of 'the leveraging of Tolkien.'

There are several levels of predisposition I see in play with regard to the series. The question is (if and) how to neutralize some of them so we have the whole RoP thing on the correct platform, then how to judge it from there.

There are still hoards of people that have it on the wrong fundamental platform - among them, many who are saying 'no I don't.'

ZehnWaters · Oct 3, 2022

The Enting said:
You're absolutely right. The statement is absolutely neutral.
It's just a helpful tool for the mind working to separate itself from a representation of 'the world of Tolkien' vs. a representation of 'the leveraging of Tolkien.'

I think I found it easier with The Hobbit than I am with RoP. The former seemed to at least be an approximation of what happened in the books the latter is...an AU fanfic.

Ent · Oct 3, 2022

ZehnWaters said:
the latter is...an AU fanfic.

There are a number of reasons for that, too... though for many that does not excuse many of the 'liberties' being taken.

To be honest with you my friend, each time I see a post, watch an episode, or think on some subject related to it, I need to 're-set' myself regarding the platform I view it from. (During an episode, I find a need for several 'resets' from time to time..!)

But being old, and rather experienced at 'neutralization' processes, it is almost second nature to 'just do so' now.

(Though it may surprise you how many posts I prepare then delete before posting, or revise while I'm re-reading, etc. Sometimes just letting my fingers fly on a thought that occurs to me is also a way of 'resetting'... getting it out, then making it go away.!) 😁

Ent · Oct 3, 2022

Perhaps it would help some if I just actually state what my opinion/position is regarding RoP clearly, as it's not going to change for quite some time yet.
So here we go:
(@Annatar, here is "an Enting's perspective" as you once remarked.)

1. Is "Rings of Power" Tolkien. NO.
2. Is "Rings of Power" based on Tolkien. YES.
3. Does "Rings of Power" "fit" anywhere into the World of 'real things Tolkien?' Only tangentially within, mostly externally.
and finally:
4. What is "Rings of Power" classified as: a) - Tolkien's works b) - Works about Tolkien's works? c) - only fanfic d) - pure 'other' fantasy
...... c) - only fanfic.
5. Is "Rings of Power" acceptable fanfic? TO BE DETERMINED.

Thus, when I review the Episodes, I am bringing myself to a 'neutral position' solely on one thing remaining to be determined: #5 above.
whether it presents itself as 'acceptable or unacceptable fanfic' based on the criteria I myself hold for what 'fanfic' is or should be. (My 'opinion'.)

So again: if anyone wants to know the Enting's thoughts or position, or has any questions, regarding Rings of Power, please refer back to this post. 😁

I may speak to YOUR thoughts as you post them, oh TTF members at large... or ask you questions about 'why' or such.

Those may help me see differently in my conclusion of #5 in time, should they alter my current perspectives on what makes for good or bad 'fanfic'. I am always open to change.

Annatar · Oct 3, 2022

Elthir said:
LOL!

May be I'll be come a write er of wurds!

Maybe you could write the novel for the series.

The Enting said:
(@Annatar, here is "an Enting's perspective" as you once remarked.)

1. Is "Rings of Power" Tolkien. NO.
2. Is "Rings of Power" based on Tolkien. YES.
3. Does "Rings of Power" "fit" anywhere into the World of 'real things Tolkien?' Only tangentially within, mostly externally.
and finally:
4. What is "Rings of Power" classified as: a) - Tolkien's works b) - Works about Tolkien's works? c) - only fanfic d) - pure 'other' fantasy
...... c) - only fanfic.
5. Is "Rings of Power" acceptable fanfic? TO BE DETERMINED.

All I read with you is Tolkien, Tolkien, Tolkien. 😉
I'm long past that level. 😬
The problem is that even detached from Tolkien, it's just terribly amateurish, soulless and bumbling. Especially given the high budget and compared to the many, many good series out there.
Therefore, there is only one solution for me: you have to see it as an involuntary parody. As an unintentional parody of both the books and a good TV series in general. You learn so, so much here that you shouldn't do as a filmmaker.

But as you say you only watch it on the side anyway, then you probably see it very similarly.

ZehnWaters · Oct 3, 2022

Annatar said:
The problem is that even detached from Tolkien, it's just terribly amateurish, soulless and bumbling. Especially given the high budget and compared to the many, many good series out there.

That's what I'm seeing too.

"You came in a tempest."
"THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME!"
"....."
"....."
"....k"

Annatar · Oct 3, 2022

ZehnWaters said:
That's what I'm seeing too.

"You came in a tempest."
"THERE IS A TEMPEST IN ME!"
"....."
"....."
"....k"

- How did your wife die?
- She drowned.
- THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!!!

ZehnWaters · Oct 3, 2022

Annatar said:
- How did your wife die?
- She drowned.
- THE SEA IS ALWAYS RIGHT!!!!!!!!

lol So many ways you can use that as a response to what happens in the show.

Ent · Oct 3, 2022

Annatar said:
for me: you have to see it as an involuntary parody. As an unintentional parody of both the books and a good TV series in general

This is an interesting…even a good…take on it. Added to my considerations!

S01 Season 1 Episode 6: Udûn Breakdown

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