The Two Towers - which towers are they?

Elthir · Jan 25, 2006

'4 January 1954 Rayner Unwin sends Tolkien a rough draft of the note about TT and RK that follows the text at the end of FR.'

22 January: '... In response to the draft note sent by Unwin on 4 January, he has had 2nd thoughts about the title 'The Two Towers'. "It must if there is any real reference to volume II refer to Orthanc and The Tower of Cirith Ungol . But since there is so much made of the basic opposition of the Dark Tower and Minas Tirith, that seems very misleading. There is, of course, actually no real connecting link between Books III and IV, when cut off and presented separately as a volume. "

23 February 1954 '... He also returns, rewritten, the note for the last page of FR.'

[Hammond and Anderson - JRR Tolkien: A Descriptive Bibliography, pp.91-2]

So the text Tolkien approved for publication, text published in The Fellowship of the Ring, agrees with the final illustration from Tolkien (the illustration has since been published).

The Two Towers are Orthanc and Minas Morgul.

Galin

Walter · Jan 25, 2006

Very strange... my copy of that book (First ed., 2nd printing 2002) doesn't have an entry for 22 February 1954, what is the printing date of your copy?

----

Edit: I may need glasses soon, though...

The entry is of course there, it was a mere typo of Galin which I didn't realize at first. The entry is dated 23 February 1954

I remember the issue was discussed to quite some extent some years ago in another thread , but I missed that the issue of the authorship of the note at the end of FotR was settled by Cian (post #191) who mentioned the entry in the Descriptive Bibliography first. Also, until today I haven't read the chronology in the Bibliography carefully enough to notice that remark...

Elthir · Jan 25, 2006

Oop, thanks for the alert Walter. I shall revise my handy 'internet' copy to 23 Feb. to try to avoid future confusion. I'll edit my previous post too.

Galin

Wonko The Sane · Jan 25, 2006

Perhaps that settles it then.
It should at least, though I think that people will, as Tolkien said, still think that Minas Tirith and Barad Dur are the two towers mentioned.

It is misleading, and he's right it isn't a great title, but it's the title now. At any rate, it's settled it for me, and confirmed I was right.

Noldor_returned · Jan 26, 2006

Somebody make a note, I was right all along.

Ingwë · Jan 27, 2006

This discussion has no end... We tried to finish it 5 or 6 months ago but we couldn't...
http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?t=3701&page=13

Elthir · Jan 27, 2006

Ingwë said:
This discussion has no end... We tried to finish it 5 or 6 months ago but we couldn't...

Tolkien answered this long ago but the general Reader couldn't be sure (often questioning the note published at the end of The Fellowship). Thanks to Hammond and Anderson and Hammond and Scull we now know a lot more concening the note and JRRT's book illustrations.

People will still have their opinions, but Tolkien's ultimate answer is quite clear in any case.

Galin

ingolmo · Jan 27, 2006

Ingwe, I believe we did.
I argued so much that it's Orthanc and Barad Dur, and gave so many referances and quotes that everyone else got tired and left.
Anyway, I still believe the same.
And you should go to that thread Beorn pointed out, it's the original thread.

Wonko The Sane · Jan 27, 2006

ingolmo said:
Ingwe, I believe we did.
I argued so much that it's Orthanc and Barad Dur, and gave so many referances and quotes that everyone else got tired and left.
Anyway, I still believe the same.
And you should go to that thread Beorn pointed out, it's the original thread.

I went to that thread and it looks like you claim that it's Orthanc and Minas Morgul...Was the Barad Dur a typo or did you change your mind?

Noldor_returned · Aug 14, 2006

I found evidence of Orthanc and Minas Morgul:

In the Fellowship of the Ring, Harper Collins 1994:

...The second part is called The Two Towers, since the events recounted in it are dominated by Orthanc...and the fortress of Minas Morgul...

I believe that should settle it.

Alcuin · Aug 15, 2006

Noldor_returned said:
I believe that should settle it.

Oh, I wouldn’t count on it.

Do Balrogs have wings? (And this one. And your debate, Noldor_returned.)
What is Tom Bombadil?
Who killed the Witch-king?

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.

Even this question – What are the Two Towers? – has an antecedent thread and poll.

Walter · Aug 15, 2006

Noldor_returned said:
I found evidence of Orthanc and Minas Morgul:

In the Fellowship of the Ring, Harper Collins 1994:

I believe that should settle it.

Congratulations...

But then again ... if you look at post #191 of the thread Alcuin mentioned, you might find that Cian did that already in 2002...

Or, if you look at this very thread and a few posts before yours Galin did the same...

Sometimes it pays to read older threads and previous posts on the same topic...

P.S.: You might have even found this overview helpful in your researches...

Alcuin · Aug 15, 2006

Noldor_returned, keep bringing these things up and asserting your opinion. Roll with the debate, hone your skills, and get better and better.

You might find the search engine useful to see what other folks have said about some of the topics.

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