What change in the movies ticks you off the most?

I can't wait!

i know it would have been said heeps but i wished that you would see ome of the old forest and bombadil.

I would have liked to see Gildor, The Old Forest, Tom Bombadil and Fatty Bolger.

its the sword of Elendil for me.
Peter Jackson keeps saying how they always went back to the text, but missed out completely the reforging of the sword.

WHY?

Would have only take five minutes to sort out.
The film sucks as an adaptation of the book.
As a film though, fantastic.

Its just not the Lord of the Rings!

The film sucks as an adaptation of the book.
As a film though, fantastic.
Its just not the Lord of the Rings!

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I totally agree with you. It´s something like LOTR but it´s not LOTR.

I agree with both you . IT's an AWESOME film on its own....but it's disappointing for alot of LOTR fans b/c of all the changes that were made.......
I'm still excited 'bout the DVD coming out. Jackson said that
there will be around 30 min. of extra footage edited into the film itself. whoo hoo!

Christof, Welcome to the forum!

Originally posted by christof
its the sword of Elendil for me.
Peter Jackson keeps saying how they always went back to the text, but missed out completely the reforging of the sword.

WHY?

Would have only take five minutes to sort out.
The film sucks as an adaptation of the book.
As a film though, fantastic.

Its just not the Lord of the Rings!

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The rumour mill has it that the re-forging of the sword is delayed, not removed. I'm not sure, but I think its planned for the start of RotK.

The rumour mill has it that the re-forging of the sword is delayed, not removed. I'm not sure, but I think its planned for the start of RotK.

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If you have a masterpiece like JRRT LOTR why make that STUPID change? PJ keeps butchering the works of JRRT.

Well I think 'butchering' is a bit OTT.

For that change, I'm not sure what the reason is. Maybe that PJ thought there was too much to take in in FotR, and wanted to keep some things back? Just guessing. If anyone's read any explanation of this from PJ, I'd be interested too.

Definately the portrayal of the 17 year period in between the birthday party and the start of the quest.
And also the way they portrayed the way the Hobbits left the Shire........

What does OTT means?

Definately the portrayal of the 17 year period in between the birthday party and the start of the quest.

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I didn´t like it either, but i can live with it!

And also the way they portrayed the way the Hobbits left the Shire........

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What was wrong with it? I thought it was one of the good things about the movie.

Goldberry where were you?

I would have said OTT stands for Over The Top, but hey, thats just me.

I've reached the part in the FOTR where they've entered the huge hallway of the Dwarrowdelf in Moria.

I've noticed more parts of the movies screenplay which does not match the book:

1. The three passageways - Gandalf goes right in the book, and not left.

2. Tenticles in the dark pool - Sam was the only one who went to Frodo's aid in the book, not Boromir, and Aragorn.

3. The part when Pippin drops a stone down the well - It was a stone, not a skeleton, and way before they reached the DwarrowDelf.

4. Opening the Stone gates at the entrance to Moria - Gandalf eventually got it right, Frodo never guessed it!

I'm sure there's more....

Originally posted by baraka


If you have a masterpiece like JRRT LOTR why make that STUPID change? PJ keeps butchering the works of JRRT.

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I know everyone is disappointed with the changes but let's face it, you can't put FOTR in a three hour movie without having people who haven't read the book rufusing to see it because it's 5 hours long. For the movie theater it was good. You CANT put FOTR in three hours. Would you prefere if they cut out the whole part of lothlorien and weathertop instead of what PJ did cut out? Come on now people!!!!! I'm sure the DVD is going to make you a lot more happy. There are rumors that it will be 6 hours with all the extra parts. It's like someone coming to you in the office at work or in the class room and offering you donuts. You can't be last and say "It's not fair, I have to have a small glazed one when others got Boston Creams!" Just be happy you got the donut (the movie) and don't complain to much. At least you got one. Would you rather have the movie or not?

Samwise, apparently you haven't read the whole thread. Most of us purists are not complaining because of the cut scenes or even some of the changed characterizations. What we are complaining about is the significant character alterations in the movie. Pippin and Merry as buffoons instead of inquisitive young Hobbits, entirely too much time spent in Hobbiton (although the visuals were awesome), the completely changed scene at the Inn in Bree, the composite (Harad's definition) characterization of Arwen, making a character that does nothing in the book do things that detract from other characters, the sourness of Elrond, the briefness of Lorien and the totally changed characterizations in the breaking of the fellowship.

These things we don't understand because we feel you could have maintained a greater integrity and adherence to the author's work and still had a bang up, dynamite, block buster of a movie. But, hey, we're just book fans and don't know anything about what makes a good movie.

Originally posted by Grond
But, hey, we're just book fans and don't know anything about what makes a good movie.

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Oh, stop that, Hara....oops, I mean Grond

Originally posted by Grond
Samwise, apparently you haven't read the whole thread. Most of us are not complaining because of the cut scenes or even some of the changed characterizations. What we are complaining about is the significant character alterations in the movie. Pippin and Merry as buffoons instead of inquisitive young Hobbits, entirely too much time spent in Hobbiton (although the visuals were awesome), the completely changed scene at the Inn in Bree, the composite (Harad's definition) characterization of Arwen, making a character that does nothing in the book do things that detract from other characters, the sourness of Elrond, the briefness of Lorien and the totally changed characterizations in the breaking of the fellowship.

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Now who's using the authoritative voice? To many of us (me in particular), Merry and Pippin weren't just buffoons in the movie. The scene at Amon Hen spoke volumes about the bravery of these two Hobbits. Did anybody honestly think of their sacrifice as buffoonery? Pippin in particular had a lot of funny lines in the movie, but many of his lines were reflections of passages from the books:

Originally written by JRRT
'What's beautiful about it?' said Pippin, peering over the edge of his blanket with one eye. 'Sam! Get breakfast ready for half-past nine! Have you got the bath-water hot?'

Frodo: 'I want to think!'
'Good heavens!' said Pippin. 'At breakfast?'

(From the introduction, concerning Hobbits) And laugh they did, and eat, and drink, often and heartily, being fond of simple jests at all times, and of six meals a day (when they could get them).

(From The Hobbit) ... and (they) laugh deep fruity laughs (especially after dinner, which they have twice a day when they can get it).

'All right!' said Pippin. 'I will follow you into every bog and ditch. But it is hard! I had counted on passing the Golden Perch at Stock before sundown. The best beer in the Eastfarthing, or used to be: it is a long time since I tasted it.'

'That's what I meant,' said Pippin. 'We hobbits ought to stick together, and we will. I shall go, unless they chain me up. There must be someone with intelligence in the party.'
'Then you certainly will not be chosen, Peregrin Took!' said Gandalf.

Pippin roused a good deal of laughter with an account of the colllapse of the roof of the Town Hole in Michel Delving.

To his alarm Frodo became aware that the ridiculous young Took, encouraged by his success with the fat Mayor of Michel Delving, was now actually giving a comic account of Bilbo's farewell party.

'You do not know your danger, Theoden,' interrupted Gandalf. 'These hobbits will sit on the edge of ruin and discuss the pleasures of the table, or the small doings of their fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers, and remoter cousins to the ninth degree, if you encourage them with undue patience.'

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These compare with lines from the movie:

From the movie
STRIDER: Gentlemen, we do not stop till nightfall.
PIPPIN: What about breakfast?
STRIDER: You have had it.
PIPPIN: We've had one, yes, what about second breakfast?
MERRY: I don't think he knows about second breakfast, Pip.
PIPPIN: What about elevenses? Luncheon? Afternoon tea? Dinner? Supper? Do you think he knows about them?
MERRY: I wouldn't count on it.
STRIDER throws an apple to MERRY, who catches it, and PIPPIN, who gets hit in the head.

FRODO: What are you doing?
MERRY: Sausages, tomatoes, nice crispy bacon!
SAM: We saved some for you!
FRODO: Put it out, you fools, put it out!
FRODO stamps out the fire.
PIPPIN: That's nice, ash on my tomatoes.

PIPPIN: What's that?
MERRY: This, my friend, is a pint.
PIPPIN: It comes in pints? I'm going to get one.
SAM: Pippin, you've had a whole half already.

PIPPIN: Anyway, you need people of intelligence on this sort of mission. Quest. Thing.
MERRY: Well, that rules you out, Pip.

PIPPIN: Baggins? Sure I know a Baggins - Frodo Baggins, over there. He's my second cousin, once removed on his Mother's side.

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In my opinion most of these passages from the movie are related to the passages above from the book- so Merry and Pippin's comedy just isn't that far removed from what Tolkien wrote. And just in case ReadWryt is still complaining about Merry and Pippin's Celtic accents, there's:

Originally written by JRRT
The names of the Bucklanders were different from those of the rest of the Shire. ... It was from the former language of the southern Stoors, no doubt, that they inherited many of their very odd names. These I have usually left unaltered, for if queer now, they were queer in their own day. They had a style that we should perhaps feel vaguely to be 'Celtic'.

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As for too much time in Hobbiton, JRRT spent 8 of the 22 chapters of Fellowship getting the Hobbits to Bree. I'd say PJ spent a much smaller ratio of the movie on that part of the journey. I've also heard that the meeting with Gildor was filmed- will anybody complain if that is added into the special edition DVD? I'm not sure I would characterize the Bree and Amon Hen seens as 'completely and totally changed'. The essence of those scenes were very much intact (IMO), and most of the 'changes' were very much in the spirit of the books, if not exact word-for-word transcriptions. The initial appearance of Strider (with a 'hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits') and Boromir's characterization at Amon Hen in particular were perfect(IMO). Elrond (and Galadriel) I felt were stern rather than sour, and I've twice posted a picture showing Elrond with his hand on Aragorn's shoulder in Rivendell to prove that PJ intended for the Half-Elf to have a caring side. As for Arwen, well that has probably been the most talked about point of the movie. Was it in the book? No. Was it in the spirit of the books: I certainly think it was. As Greenwood has pointed out numerous times, Arwen was similar to Luthien and Luthien would have done these sorts of things. From Letters #153:

Originally written by JRRT
Arwen is not a 're-incarnation' of Luthien but a descendant very like her in looks, character, and fate.

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I don't really have a problem with anybody complaining about the movie, but I don't think that anybody should just sit back and state that 'such and such a scene was a complete departure from the books and totally changed the characterizations', when these scenes were often drawing on the words of Tolkien from other parts of the book.

Originally posted by baraka
What does OTT means?

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Yes OTT = Over The Top; ie excessive.

Aragil, top post! I entirely agree.

That was a great post Aragil - especially the M&P book/scripts comparasions.

Originally posted by aragil
I don't really have a problem with anybody complaining about the movie, but I don't think that anybody should just sit back and state that 'such and such a scene was a complete departure from the books and totally changed the characterizations', when these scenes were often drawing on the words of Tolkien from other parts of the book.

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Aragil, I failed to insert the word "Purists" in my post. It should have read "us purists" and I have edited that in. I have praised the movie over and over again and how I feel that it is a fitting tribute to JRRT's work. I have stated how the visualizations were wonderful and how the characters worked well, one with the other.

My post was in direct response to Samwise who wrote, ...You CANT put FOTR in three hours. Would you prefere if they cut out the whole part of lothlorien and weathertop instead of what PJ did cut out? Come on now people!!!!!

As for the rest of your long post, I just plainly disagree with most of your assertions. I'm sure that you would deny that the Arwen character wasn't a departure from the book despite the fact that she didn't make an appearance until the Hobbits arrived at Rivendell. Aragorn miraculously having Swords of Numenor stowed about is right in there too. But I won't argue with you about it, you are as set in your beliefs as I am. My opinions are exactly that, my opinons. If you don't like them, post your disapproval. The reason for these statements is that in my opinion, and that of many others on the forum, the movie does make significant and, more importantly, unnecessary departures from the book.

The swords: that should have been handled better.

I think removing the Barrow Downs from the film screenplay was right - but that left the swords appearing from nowhere. I think PJ could have done a better job of tying this down.

There's a rumour that this is achieved more fully in the extended DVD version. We'll have to wait and see.