What change in the movies ticks you off the most?

A very old thread, indeed, but nevermind.

What bothers me most, is that many scenes looks way pathetic, instead of dramatic.
First of all.. yelling: Froooodooooo... Gandaaaaalf... Noooooooo...
Then slowmotion parts where Frodo looks into the ring, with a (slowmotion) tear in his eye.....
The crying part after Morria... Yikes!!! I want to puke.

Then, there's a utterly pathethic and stupid character dialogues, where they argue for no reason, or gives stupid advices (example: Arwen telling Aragorn that he is not Isildur, pointless arguing between Legolas and Aragorn at Helms Deep, and pointless Elron's speech to Gandalf that they can't keep the ring in Rivendell).

Last (but not least), changing characters personalities completely.
I am mostly bothered with Aragorn and Gandalf, that are totally different then in the books, and felt way too weak.
Legolas is just some ninja guy. Gimli is used for fart jokes.

With exception of Bilbo, Boromir, and Saruman (yet, Saruman's death was terribly done), nobody at least resemble their counterparts in book.

Well-aged Enting said:

A very old fossil, this thread, yet Thorin's "belief" as stated is entirely true. For many, the Film is now all they know of LoTR - to much great loss. And they try to talk "knowledgeably" about what Tolkien's LoTR is all about, and what the various characters have said and done.

Saints preserve us..!!
In such a case as this, may we ever find Radagast the Eccentric leading the wolves away in his Bunny-drawn Sled to keep us safe a bit longer from the pod-born Orcs of Isengard. (To mix different movies having the same malodorous types of errors as their frequent fare..!)

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Wow, and oldie but goodie! Memories of names like Mrs Maggot, Talimon, and of course, Thorin! Yes, sadly it has become rather humorous that the PJ worshippers think that RoP is defacing Tolkien's work, when that genie got out of the bottle long before when Peter Jackson opened it.

Halasían said:

Wow, and oldie but goodie! Memories of names like Mrs Maggot, Talimon, and of course, Thorin! Yes, sadly it has become rather humorous that the PJ worshippers think that RoP is defacing Tolkien's work, when that genie got out of the bottle long before when Peter Jackson opened it.

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One of the things I'm finding most interesting as I research 'stuff' at present, is Tolkien's own viewpoints on changes attempted to be made by editors and dramatizers to his written text, characters, etc.

He had much to say about them. And I note comments throughout this thread mirror many of his own remarks. He was, at times, quite pointed..!

I think I'll start compiling them as I go along, and put this on my list for another little writing to be done in future. (Pray that I live long enough. The list grows apace - but the time cannot lengthen to accommodate it...!)

Clearly, though this is string has fossilized a bit, yet there are some pent-up hostilities that "still seethe in the hearts and minds of men." (and women.)

On we go.

Character motivations and, well, characterization. Biggest examples being 1) introducing unnecessary conflict and 2) making characters do stupid things in order to further that conflict, and thus undermining their characterization. Examples: introducing Aragorn's inner conflict about becoming King of Gondor, turning Faramir into Boromir-lite, making Gandalf and Aragorn into idiots just so they can have a spat with Theoden, making everybody into an idiot so that Saruman can tell them something that is obvious just by looking at the map (Sauron will attack Gondor! GASP!), turning Denethor into an idiot so Gandalf can give Faramir a speech about not throwing away his life, turning Theoden into an idiot so that he can have a change of heart after awesomly stupid beacons scene... and I'm quite certain this is only a partial list.

Another thing is spatial considerations. Characters appear to teleport, most notably the army of Elves from Lórien, not only to the spot they're required to be but also behind enemy lines. Spiffy!

Seriously, though, up there for stupidest moment in the movies.

You reminded me how I tried -- and failed -- to suppress my laughter at that scene, when a friend and I saw it in the theater. I remember whispering " Hooray! The ninjas are here!".

Haldir and the elves showing up to Helm's Deep..maybe I wrote that once in the last 56 pages but can't remember 😅

It's not so much what was left out.... I completely understand that some elements of the book would be condensed and some others would never make it into the films "cough" Tom Bombadil "cough". But what really irks me is the stuff that's completely invented. That includes characters doing/saying things that are completely out of character (just about everybody), people being places that they aren't supposed to be (Elves at Helms Deep, Frodo & Sam in Osgiliath, etc), and really stupid things like Legolas and the Oliphaunt. Just WHY????? Surely there is enough material in the text without having to invent more?

Ealdwyn said:

But what really irks me is the stuff that's completely invented. That includes characters doing/saying things that are completely out of character (just about everybody), people being places that they aren't supposed to be (Elves at Helms Deep, Frodo & Sam in Osgiliath, etc), and really stupid things like Legolas and the Oliphaunt. Just WHY????? Surely there is enough material in the text without having to invent more?

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Aragorn's stupid fake death and fever dream of weepy-faced Arwen. Yargh. I didn't count the minutes but it was at least five, I'm guessing.

Ealdwyn said:

really stupid things like Legolas and the Oliphaunt. Just WHY?????

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Aw, didn't you think that was fun?

Squint-eyed Southerner said:

Aw, didn't you think that was fun?
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Oh yeah it was fun. It's just not Tolkien.

Ealdwyn said:

It's not so much what was left out.... I completely understand that some elements of the book would be condensed and some others would never make it into the films "cough" Tom Bombadil "cough". But what really irks me is the stuff that's completely invented. That includes characters doing/saying things that are completely out of character (just about everybody), people being places that they aren't supposed to be (Elves at Helms Deep, Frodo & Sam in Osgiliath, etc), and really stupid things like Legolas and the Oliphaunt. Just WHY????? Surely there is enough material in the text without having to invent more?

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My dear Ealdwyn: Indeed there is plenty of material without invention.
But consider: in their own way, those who edit books, prep them for publishing, dramatize them for screen, etc. virtually always fashion themselves also as writers (in spite of the facts).

Tolkien again and again chastised Zimmerman, for example, on his efforts to alter the nature and being of Tolkien's characters and their doings. Both to Zimmerman, and in his letters to others. So it is nothing new.

It is, frankly, a bit of a miracle that so much of his own writing actually made it to publication. If we listen to today's authors, they often simply cannot overcome the demands of those who "think they know better what a Balrog is" than the Balrog's creator does, to use a specific Tolkien example. (He followed it up by saying - "...but he can't expect me to agree with him..!")

What we have in the films is not Tolkien - it is the ideas of Tolkien re-worked to suit the pseudo-authors who think they can invent and deliver better than he.

And there, at the end of the day, we have the fundamental 'issue' with every movie ever made whose source is from a book, differing, changing, embellishing, re-working, and ultimately (in my personal view) reducing or destroying the nature and value of the original work.

That's why my own approach to watching ANY of these movies, is to try to "enjoy them for what they are" - their acting, their cinematography, their flow, etc. - rather than doing comparative analysis to consider 'what they should be.'

You see... there is no 'should be' for the makers of the movies.
That only exists in the minds of the readers/fans who prefer to see a brilliant work CONTINUED, rather than dumbed down to near unrecognizability.

I mentioned this in another thread (couldn't say which), but the "Go home, Sam" scene ranks pretty high (or low) and bears repeating. Just a hideous, unpardonable, infuriating desecration of the text.

First off, Sam obeys; just, WHAT?? Second, he finds the lembas strewn about at the foot of the (very high and very steep stairway) and crushes a handful in his fist; the precious, life-preserving substance is treated as a stupid prop and plot point, not to mention uncharacteristically sullied by Sam. Third, there is no way he could ascend those stairs in time to save Frodo. The scene even shows the stairs as if to emphasize this. Another case of teleportation.

People can bash ROP all they want and it will probably be deserved, but they're working off a thin framework. Not that that's an excuse but Peter Jackson had the story spelt out for him and still decided to introduce his own balderdash.

Radaghast said:

I mentioned this in another thread (couldn't say which), but the "Go home, Sam" scene ranks pretty high (or low) and bears repeating. Just a hideous, unpardonable, infuriating desecration of the text.

First off, Sam obeys; just, WHAT?? Second, he finds the lembas strewn about at the foot of the (very high and very steep stairway) and crushes a handful in his fist; the precious, life-preserving substance is treated as a stupid prop and plot point, not to mention uncharacteristically sullied by Sam. Third, there is no way he could ascend those stairs in time to save Frodo. The scene even shows the stairs as if to emphasize this. Another case of teleportation.

People can bash ROP all they want and it will probably be deserved, but they're working off a thin framework (not that that's an excuse). Peter Jackson had his story spell out for him and decided to introduce his own balderdash.

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Oh I hate that scene. HATE IT
So they wanted to create additional tension between Sam and Frodo.... but WHY??? Like there isn't enough tension already??? What with Gollum being so perfidious, and an army of orcs below them, and Nazgul, and a great big spider wanting to sink her fangs into them, and the presence of the Ring growing all the more ominous. That not enough tension for ya, PJ?????

Ealdwyn said:

Oh I hate that scene. HATE IT
So they wanted to create additional tension between Sam and Frodo.... but WHY??? Like there isn't enough tension already??? What with Gollum being so perfidious, and an army of orcs below them, and Nazgul, and a great big spider wanting to sink her fangs into them, and the presence of the Ring growing all the more ominous. That not enough tension for ya, PJ?????

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Yeah, I mean, what the heck? What was wrong with the scene as Tolkien wrote it? The tension came from Sam's fight with Gollum. Why introduce sheer nonsense?

Radaghast said:

Aragorn's stupid fake death and fever dream of weepy-faced Arwen. Yargh. I didn't count the minutes but it was at least five, I'm guessing.

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But Brego was a good boi

Ealdwyn said:

Oh yeah it was fun. It's just not Tolkien.

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Yeah, more like something some MCU character would do.

Erestor Arcamen said:

But Brego was a good boi
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That scene should have been set to some nu-Aerosmith song. I mean, why the heck not?

Ealdwyn said:

Oh I hate that scene. HATE IT
So they wanted to create additional tension between Sam and Frodo.... but WHY??? Like there isn't enough tension already??? What with Gollum being so perfidious, and an army of orcs below them, and Nazgul, and a great big spider wanting to sink her fangs into them, and the presence of the Ring growing all the more ominous. That not enough tension for ya, PJ?????

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Radaghast said:

Yeah, I mean, what the heck? What was wrong with the scene as Tolkien wrote it? The tension came from Sam's fight with Gollum. Why introduce sheer nonsense?

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That I think links back to my post: Peter Jackson's obsession with introducing unnecessary personal conflict. Examples are... all over the movies, frankly.

Aldarion said:

That I think links back to my post: Peter Jackson's obsession with introducing unnecessary personal conflict. Examples are... all over the movies, frankly.

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The shame about that scene is that the book already had its own conflict, the aforementioned fight between Sam and Gollum, something Peej could've milked for maximum cinematic effect, but instead did that dumb thing with the lembas bread. SMH.