Peeping-Tom
Noldo & Uruk-Hai in one
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2011
- Messages
- 284
Tolkien never said exactly who it was but he gave a few hints, and that has caused many theories on what he is.. So, what do you think he is?
This thread is now merged with 'What Was Tom Bombadil' originally in The History of Middle-Earth section Ancalagon.
This thread is now merged with numerous Tom Bombadil threads scattered hap hazardly over the forum in the last two days from Stuff and Bother and the Movie Forum Grond
This thread now merged with other Tom B threads.
Ah, but it is always such a nuisance when someone ruins a good discussion with facts...It never fails to amaze me how folks interject their opinions above what Tolkien SAYS.
A third of the folks vote one form of Ainur or the other.
Ainur are not 'inigmas' or 'the spirit of the vanishing countryside' (whatever, paraphrase)
But let us not have the author's words get in the way of our opinions on HIS work, lol. :*rolleyes:
To be fair, there's probably enough threads on both Tom Bombadil and also the Entwives that each could have their own subforums on TTFDang -- here's another one:
I haven't compared them, to see if parts of that one were incorporated into the first.
View attachment 6478
The characters who elude the moral antithesis of heroism and villainy generally are or suggest spirits of nature. They represent partly the moral neutrality of the intermediate world of nature and partly a world of mystery which is glimpsed but never seen, and which retreats when approached. Among female characters of this type are the shy nymphs of Classical legends and the elusive half-wild creatures who might be called daughter-figures, and include Spencer's Florimell, Hawthorne's Pearl, Wagner's Kundry, and Hudson's Rima. Their male counterparts have a little more variety. Kipling's Mowgli is the best known of the wild boys; a green man lurked in the forests of medieval England, appearing as Robin Hood and as the knight of Gawain's adventure; the "salvage man", represented in Spenser by Satyrane, is a Renaissance favorite, and the awkward but faithful giant with unkempt hair has shambled amiably through romance for centuries.
Such characters are, more or less, children of nature, who can be brought to serve the hero, like Crusoe's Friday, but retain the inscrutability of their origin. As servants or friends of the hero, they impart the mysterious rapport with nature that so often marks the central figure of romance. The paradox that many of these children of nature are "supernatural" beings is not as distressing in romance as in logic. The helpful fairy, the grateful dead man, the wonderful servant who has just the abilities the hero needs in a crisis, are all folk tale commonplaces.
Based upon my extensive knowledge of British folklore, and Celtic / pagan mythology, it seems wildly obvious to me that Tom Bombadil represents the "Green Man" the god of nature and fertility akin to Dionysus - He is the "Master" of beasts and wild things so extensively discussed in the writings of Anthropologist Margaret Murray. His Wife Goldberry, the "river daughter" is obviously a type of river goddess, or Lady of the Lake / goddess of the well, so prevalent in British folklore. She represents the Earth Mother Goddess who is forever linked with the Green Man / God of nature.Tom Bombadil
Tolkien never said exactly who it was but he gave a few hints, and that has caused many theories on what he is.. So, what do you think he is?
This thread is now merged with 'What Was Tom Bombadil' originally in The History of Middle-Earth section Ancalagon.
This thread is now merged with numerous Tom Bombadil threads scattered hap hazardly over the forum in the last two days from Stuff and Bother and the Movie Forum Grond
[color=008000]This thread now merged with other Tom B threads.[/color]
As Sauron is clearly a Maia (and was present in whatever participatory function of the Music of the Ainur of The Sil), calling him mortal "seems" to me to be going beyond JRRT "canon" as badly as PJ often did in his six films. And while JRRT may not have entirely ignored Celtic mythology, it certainly takes a back seat (and I'm not thinking of cars here, more long-distance buses like the Greyhound in the US) to Norse mythology. For "Sauron is mortal" you had better dig up some quotes by JRRT himself … 🤨… Sauron with all his evil, is just another foolish mortal being living in the world that belongs to tom Bombadil and Goldberry... his magic is irrelevant to them.
I confess that my statement on Sauron may be hyperbole, however I stick to my assessment of Celtic / British folkloric influences in JRRT: anyone familiar with British folklore surrounding the Green Man and Goddesses of wells/ springs/ rivers, cannot help but see the link to Bombadil & Goldberry. Even though JRRT may not have explicitly stated the fact (or even been conscious of it) himself, his creation of the character Bombadil would have been influenced by the mere fact of his being British, and having the cultural background in which Green Man / horned god of the wilds folklore is a part. Even today, English villages host traditional seasonal celebrations surrounding these mythic figures - this would’ve been even more prevalent and part of British cultural assumptions in JRRT’s day. As for Norse myths- I agree they’re a big part of JRRT’s sources- However, much of what survives of Norse Mythology bears strong evidence of blending with both Christian, and earlier Celtic ideas. Truth be told, it’s hard to say what of Norse Mythology is truly original, and what of it is a hybrid with later additions. By the time the Norsemen & Vikings came on the scene, Christianity and Celtic myth were already established in Britain, and as we know from anthropology- premodern people had a habit of adopting and admixing mythologies together.As Sauron is clearly a Maia (and was present in whatever participatory function of the Music of the Ainur of The Sil), calling him mortal "seems" to me to be going beyond JRRT "canon" as badly as PJ often did in his six films. And while JRRT may not have entirely ignored Celtic mythology, it certainly takes a back seat (and I'm not thinking of cars here, more long-distance buses like the Greyhound in the US) to Norse mythology. For "Sauron is mortal" you had better dig up some quotes by JRRT himself … 🤨
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