Who has greatest success among Vala, 🧙Maia, 🐲Dragon and Balrog Killers?

Maybe this?

"Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Ilúvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Ilúvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, . . ." JRRT, Ainulindale

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Turin_Turambar said:

A Middle Earth historian that I follow on YouTube explained it in his Dagor Dagorath video. Manwe and Melkor fight and Melkor kills Manwe. Then Melkor fights with Tulkas and defeats Tulkas. But after that, Turin kills Melkor.

Click to expand...

My advice: if possible, always compare what Tolkien actually wrote to what you find on Youtube, or anywhere else on the web, including my posts in this thread. In short. . .

🐝 ware

Elthir said:

"Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said that a greater still shall be made before Ilúvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Ilúvatar after the end of days. Then the themes of Ilúvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their utterance, . . ." JRRT, Ainulindale

Click to expand...

There it be..!!! Thank you.

Coupling all you have pulled together in your usual catlike clevernous, I rest my case for Tolkien's 'end of all things,' 'renewal,' and 'made again' being quite 'consonant* with Christian theology.'

*consonant - as with all things Tolkien, we must understand the meaning of the words he used properly, to grasp his meaning. "consonant" is not the same as "the same."

Oxford Languages: "in agreement or harmony with."

Yet while it is not 'the same' it is quite easily recognizable. (Another instance of his incorporation of "moral and religious elements in solution but not overtly.)

Tolkien's works are a textbook for us on achieving objectives through circumstances, scenes, words, and events rather than direct statements. Few have had his mastery of this element of writing.

Turin_Turambar said:

A Middle Earth historian that I follow on YouTube explained it in his Dagor Dagorath video. Manwe and Melkor fight and Melkor kills Manwe. Then Melkor fights with Tulkas and defeats Tulkas. But after that, Turin kills Melkor.

Click to expand...

Which youtube channel?

I tried to find this channel myself Tar-E, and in so doing I found more than one YouTube video (about the Dagor Dagorath) which included outright fan-invented description.

Even Nerd of the Rings has, in my view, some problematic phrasing with respect to Christopher Tolkien's "interpretation" here, and, for example, Nerd relates that "it's also been pointed out" that the content of the Second Prophecy "could" have been a Mannish legend!

Pointed out? By who or whom? By Tolkien that's whom! And Tolkien doesn't say it could be a myth, he says it is, adding that it's clearly made by Men (albeit acquainted with Elvish tradition).

That said: kudos to Nerd for then including the actual quote, by why be so tentative setting it up?

And (seemingly) Nerd of the Rings has the external chronology "backwards" with respect to the dating of the Andreth Prophecy -- unless Nerd means to suggest that Andreth's prophecy comes internally before the account of the War of Wrath? Or something.

Nerd of the Rings also delves a bit -- and in my opinion somewhat "needlessly" -- into
(the noted Tolkien scholar) Verlyn Flieger's opinion about this matter, and I say somewhat
needlessly because not only does Christopher Tolkien never declare that his father had definitively abandoned "a vision of the end of the World" scenario, but he (Christopher Tolkien) included references -- plural -- to a Last battle in his 1977 Silmarillion.

I gave one already in this thread: "(. . .) and Menelmacar with his shining belt, that forebodes the Last Battle that shall be at the end of days."

And here's another (without diacritics however): "But Ar-Pharazon the King and the mortal warriors that had set foot upon the land of Aman were buried under falling hills: there it is said that they lie imprisoned in the Caves of the Forgotten, until the Last Battle and the Day of Doom." Akallabeth

That's Christopher Tolkien folks, choosing to publish this way back in the 1977 Silmarillion.

Anyway, there I go again; but some of the YouTube videos had me snarling earlier -- well yawning actually, but still I had to ramble a bit more here, before feeding time.