Drawing Thorin "Oakenshield"

[Afalstein]

"The first assault of the vanguard led by Thrain was thrown back with loss, and Thrain was driven into a wood of great trees that then still grew not far from Kheled-zaram. There Frerin his son fell, and Fundin his kinsman, and many others, and both Thrain and Thorin were wounded."

(footnote): "It is said that Thorin's shield was cloven and he cast it away and he hewed off with his axe a branch of an oak and held it in his left hand to ward off the strokes of his foes, or to wield as a club. In this way he got his name."

Also viewable at my DevART account here.

 

[Ghorim]

Once again, Afalstein, I wholeheartedly approve of this artwork.

Also: the lone, decapitated orc head in the background makes for some unexpected comedy.

 

[Thorin]

I heartily approve of this material! :*)

 

[Bard the Bowman]

This is superb. I also like it how you accurately represent the size of the Orcs. Some people place them about the same height as dwarves...which they are not

 

[Elthir]

This is superb. I also like it how you accurately represent the size of the Orcs. Some people place them about the same height as dwarves...which they are not

Some Orcs would be similar in stature to Dwarves, in my opinion.

 

[Bard the Bowman]

True. But so would some Men as well.

 

[Prince of Cats]

The sense of background and foreground is awesome; Thorin is coming out of the screen! :*up

 

[HLGStrider]

This is one occasion where I wish we had a facebook style "like" system because I'd like to convey approval/enjoyment of the picture, but I honestly have nothing of value to add other than that.

 

[Elthir]

True. But so would some Men as well.

I've wondered about the question of orc stature (Third Age) myself, and so far I've come up with...


One example of text I'm using here: I note at one point during the battle at Helm's Deep Gimli notes that the Hillmen are overlarge for him, but all through the battle he fights Saruman's orcs of course, and, not that anyone said otherwise, but I think it would be a stretch to say he encountered no Uruks here, or expected not to.

So perhaps (and admittedly using convenient increments here): 3.5 feet to 4.5 feet for *snaga-hai, and 4.5 to 5.5 feet (and above) for uruks -- that is, say a 5 foot 8 -- 10 inch Uruk being exceptionally huge for an orc. And then we have the 'goblin-men' at an average of 5 feet 11 to 6 feet...

... or [cough] man-high, but not according to the measure of the Dunedain and the Men of old.


Those are some guesses so far, posted to see if anyone agrees, disagrees... or doesn't really care.



:*D

 

[Bard the Bowman]

Good news Galin! I found some text that can help us. In the Fellowship of the Ring, in Moria at the battle of Balin's Tombs, there is a passage; "But even as they retreated, and before Pippin and Merry had reached the stair outside, a huge orc-chieftain, almost man-high..." Now, this is a huge orc, almost man high. So let's say it is around 6 feet tall. However, Uruk-Hai are often referred to as orcs as well, and it is my opinion that this orc is an Uruk-hai, because his face is described as swart, an adjective used to describe the Uruk-hai Boromir slew. So you may be right.

However, it is my opinion that this orc chieftain was huge to compared to his followers, the Snaga-hai, and so he could have just been a normal Uruk seeming like a huge Snaga-hai.

Now, I assume by goblin-men you mean half-orcs; men who through Saruman's sorcery have orcish blood in them. They would be the same size as regular men.

So, I put Snaga-hai at 5' - 5'5", Uruk-Hai at 5'7" - 5'11", and Half-orcs at about the same size as Dunlendings or whatever. Mountain goblins might be a bit smaller perhaps compared to snaga, with the lack of sunlight. No vitamin D.

In reference to Gimli at Helm's Deep, i think it is safe to say he encountered not too many Uruks, because he might have encountered Wild Men as well and then what would he do? It says in the book, "There the hugest orcs were mustered, and the wild men of Dunland fells...".

Oh goblin men I think refers to uruk-hai, while Half-orcs refers to the men who through sorcery have ingested orcish blood.

 

[Elthir]

I think the huge orc-chieftain in Moria was an Uruk of Mordor, and he is mainly why I arrived at 5 foot 8 to 5 foot 10 inches for exceptionally tall orcs -- because I put 'man-high' at 5 foot 11 inches to around 6 feet.

On the lower end I have some smaller snaga-types because of Frodo and Sam hiding among the orcs, and possibly for some of the wolf-riders... although granted it would depend upon the size and strength of the wolves involved in any event.


I think the half-orcs are the result of Saruman breeding orcs and men, with some ending up mannish enough looking to serve as spies. The Uruk-hai have been much debated (especially here in an amazingly long thread), but in my opinion they are great soldier orcs.

 

[Bard the Bowman]

Well you are entitled to your opinion. But at least we both agree that the orc chieftan was an Uruk. If he wasn't, your hypotheses would crumble