Why does Smaug prefer "maidens"?

[Rivendell_librarian]

I've just started re-reading The Hobbit, and I noticed this in a section describing dragons:

After that there were no dwarves left alive inside, and he took all their wealth for himself. Probably, for that is the dragons' way, he has piled it all up in a great heap far inside, and sleeps on it for a bed. Later he used to crawl out of the great gate and come by night to Dale, and carry away people, especially maidens, to eat, until Dale was ruined, and all the people dead or gone.

Is this misogyny from Tolkien and/or Smaug or a reference to the myth of St. George. Googling I found two interesting views on this:

1.
Ancient Symbology in Fantasy Literature: A Psychological Study
By William Indick

According to Indick, dragons represent rapacious greed. Dragons steal and horde gold and maidens even though they have no practical use for them. In fact elsewhere in chapter 1, we are told Smaug did not appreciate the value of his treasure: "they hardly know a good bit of work from a bad, though they usually have a good notion of the current market value". Wilde's "price of everything and value of nothing" is suggested. Rather Smaug covets these things simply because men (and dwarves?) crave them?

2.
Bilbo's Journey: Discovering the Hidden Meaning of the Hobbit
By Joseph Pearce

Pearce says Smaug is not just hungry but wicked. They defile the undefiled. The struggle against the dragon is not just a struggle against a physical monster, but wickedness itself: something we can encounter in our daily lives. Bilbo chooses to engage in this conflict rather than hide away in his comfortable hobbit hole.

 

[CirdanLinweilin]

I've just started re-reading The Hobbit, and I noticed this in a section describing dragons:

After that there were no dwarves left alive inside, and he took all their wealth for himself. Probably, for that is the dragons' way, he has piled it all up in a great heap far inside, and sleeps on it for a bed. Later he used to crawl out of the great gate and come by night to Dale, and carry away people, especially maidens, to eat, until Dale was ruined, and all the people dead or gone.

Is this misogyny from Tolkien and/or Smaug or a reference to the myth of St. George. Googling I found two interesting views on this:

1.
Ancient Symbology in Fantasy Literature: A Psychological Study
By William Indick

According to Indick, dragons represent rapacious greed. Dragons steal and horde gold and maidens even though they have no practical use for them. In fact elsewhere in chapter 1, we are told Smaug did not appreciate the value of his treasure: "they hardly know a good bit of work from a bad, though they usually have a good notion of the current market value". Wilde's "price of everything and value of nothing" is suggested. Rather Smaug covets these things simply because men (and dwarves?) crave them?

2.
Bilbo's Journey: Discovering the Hidden Meaning of the Hobbit
By Joseph Pearce

Pearce says Smaug is not just hungry but wicked. They defile the undefiled. The struggle against the dragon is not just a struggle against a physical monster, but wickedness itself: something we can encounter in our daily lives. Bilbo chooses to engage in this conflict rather than hide away in his comfortable hobbit hole.

I wouldn't accuse the man of misogyny, rather he was using an old dragon trope, or I'd say euphemism for deflowering maidens, in a way that would suit a Dragon, such as Smaug, therefore, Smaug devoured them.


CL

 

[Deleted member 12094]

My impression is that the two views quoted by Rivendell_librarian and the one of CirdanLinweilin are probably all three complimentary and in harmony. I think that the mentioning of "maidens" somewhat enforces the notion of something defenseless and pure that is being plundered and destroyed by Smaug's evil.

Maybe we should not seek a deep truth behind every word that JRRT wrote, though. I had noticed that word "maidens" as well but had never given it much thought before.

 

[Ithilethiel]

...and not only dragons prefer maidens... sorry just couldn't resist

 

[Miguel]

Vermithrax prefers virgins. This is a she-dragon btw.

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

I wasn't thinking "deep truth". Rather I was wondering if it was just about smaug's stomach then wouldn't he prefer to eat men since men, on average, are heavier than women.

 

[Deleted member 12094]

...and not only dragons prefer maidens... sorry just couldn't resist

Euh... that's a different fire than the one from a dragon you're confusing with, Ithilethiel!

Rather I was wondering if it was just about smaug's stomach then wouldn't he prefer to eat men since men, on average, are heavier than women.

Good point Rivendell_librarian.
On the lighter side, who'd say "no" to a juicy, freshly hunted maiden, served on a plate of dwarven gold? Ask Smaug!

 

[Olorgando]

Often outsized critters demanding maidens as sacrifice seems to go back at least to bronze age Greek legends – perhaps even to the Sumerian stuff that was copied by others (though that minotaur on Crete seems to have been a bit indifferent on the topic).
But then there is one aspect that doesn’t seem to have been “ventilated” here yet:
Who went on quests to rescue the occasional maiden?
Heroes. Male heroes. For about 5000 years this was the normal script. How to motivate them? Duh. 😄

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

Spoiler: Possible 'Mature' Content

Virgin Sacrifice

Watch Saturday Night Live highlight 'Virgin Sacrifice' on NBC.com

www.nbc.com

 

[user16578]

Why... wouldn't you prefer maidens? ...

I think the pure, innocent life of maidens fed Smaug the most satisfying...

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

Hurin was a captive of Morgoth in Angband for many years but no maiden came to his rescue.

 

[Olorgando]

Why... wouldn't you prefer maidens? ...

I think the pure, innocent life of maidens fed Smaug the most satisfying...

Ye-hes, but my wife and I met about 38 years ago, so as to rescuing maidens it has for me been reduced to a spectator sport (as in films, TV, DVDs) for a long time.
(There are also some minor issues such as advanced age, seriously defective combat abilities compared to the usual hero, getting uncomfortably close to the Hobbit phenotype …)
In terms of a delicacy (more of a high-end snack) that may have been true, but if Smaug had been really hungry, I'm guessing he'd prefer Bombur (a kind of double whopper or quarter-pounder, if you take my meaning )

Hurin was a captive of Morgoth in Angband for many years but no maiden came to his rescue.

That confirms the general trend of the past millennia ...

BUT!!! (Oh dear, it has been two years since the publication of the book! 😞 )
Just think of Beren and Lúthien!!! Just like LoTR was actually an anti-quest (destroy, not regain something …)
It was permanently Beren who had to be rescued or was passive!
Lúthien got out of that tree-house by her own resources, got Beren out of the First Age's Minas Tirith (by then renamed - and OK, here, she had some minor assistance by some overgrown pooch ), sent Carcharoth beddy-bye when they entered Angband, did the same for Morgoth and all in his throne room (including Beren), managed to make Mandos (Námo) change his mind for the only time in the history of Arda …
Beren's having made it from Dorthonion to Doriath (and breaching the Girdle of Melian protecting the latter in the process) was quite a feat. But afterwards, next to Lúthien, he does appear relatively wimpy ...

 

[Thouaweek]

Would the old lore be based on the fact that killing maidens would be the most effective way of controlling the population?

 

[Olorgando]

Would the old lore be based on the fact that killing maidens would be the most effective way of controlling the population?

I doubt that was much of a reason. Besides uncontrollable stuff like plagues, natural disasters and famines, the “favorite” method was generally warfare.

Perhaps it has more to do with much of Bronze-age and older “theology” – Eve and that forbidden fruit in Paradise being the currently best-known example - that it’s their fault, anyway.

Then again, the men were needed as warriors (in later eras with more mechanized warfare the “favorite” term was cannon-fodder) and could not so easily be spared. And deriving from the fact that warfare was also rather common, men were constantly being killed off, leading to a surplus of widows, one of the perhaps major reasons for polygamous societies (there are others). But as any economist will tell you, surpluses can be used for other purposes …

 

[Rivendell_librarian]

Beren and Luthien - a tale waiting for the PJ treatment!

 

[Olorgando]

EEEEEK! Along the lines of Kili and Tauriel?!? 🤮