Which of these 4 middle earth battles is the biggest?

[1stvermont]

JRRT had mentioned that the battle of Minas-Tirith was the largest since the age of Isildur, further, the battle of Dogarlad was 2nd largest battle, as an result, we can make the conclusion that battle of Minas-Tirith was the 3rd largest.

If i am not mistaken he said that the army coming out of minas Morgul was the largest to cross the Anduin and it was but one of the fingers on the hand Sauron had realsed.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

...Anduin and it was but one of the fingers on the hand Sauron had realsed....

Hmmm...unless JRRT set that the comparison was restricted to the Anduin watershed near Minas-Tirith only, my infer would be correct. However, at least during the whole 3rd Age, it seemed there're no other such huge assembly.

 

[1stvermont]

Hmmm...unless JRRT set that the comparison was restricted to the Anduin watershed near Minas-Tirith only, my infer would be correct. However, at least during the whole 3rd Age, it seemed there're no other such huge assembly.

I was simply saying you were using only a partial army under the witch king from Minas Morgul and not the entire army from Mordor/harad/easterlings etc so it is an unfair comparison to set aginst the first age battle to declare they were larger than minis Tirith. You would have to take the entire shadow army and compare not just one section.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

...Tirith. You would have to take the entire shadow army...

OK...WAIT!!!But if we consider the distance between Mordor's HQ and Minas-Tirith, ehhh...could the reserves mentioned by you get considered as involving units?After all...you know...these units, at least those orcs units, having the most many personnel produced in Mordor HQ, could be thrown into their gate, located almost just at Minas-Tirith at any time. My dear, don't forget during Nirnaeth arnoediad, the longest interval between the battle groups, you know, for instance, the Gondolin's expedition were distant from the whole Fingon's battle groups's every personnel sight, proving that their distance spaced might be more far than the one between Minas-Tirith and Mordor HQ. Of course it's another matter that the orcish inferior intelligence that might make their assembly's efficiency suck.
😅 😅 😅

 

[1stvermont]

View attachment 9696OK...WAIT!!!But if we consider the distance between Mordor's HQ and Minas-Tirith, ehhh...could the reserves mentioned by you get considered as involving units?After all...you know...these units, at least those orcs units, having the most many personnel produced in Mordor HQ, could be thrown into their gate, located almost just at Minas-Tirith at any time. My dear, don't forget during Nirnaeth arnoediad, the longest interval between the battle groups, you know, for instance, the Gondolin's expedition were distant from the whole Fingon's battle groups's every personnel sight, proving that their distance spaced might be more far than the one between Minas-Tirith and Mordor HQ. Of course it's another matter that the orcish inferior intelligence that might make their assembly's efficiency suck.
😅 😅 😅

I would say yes the "reserves" would count as they were involved in not only the battle in the fields but the campaign. ME was very feudal, so the morgul units were independent in a way but part of the war. The passage that mentioned how many troops crossed at that time were not all that was involved in the battle.

 

[Gothmog]

I find the mobility of goal-posts to be most interesting.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

...ME was very feudal, so the morgul units were independent in a way but part of the war...

!I thought only the Free People or Men were feudal, for you know, orcs obviously didn't have that intelligence along with all kinds of personnel quality to be reliably authorized. For too many times, JRRT had mentioned without horribly well-centralized command system, the orcs would get into mutinies against their.

 

[1stvermont]

View attachment 9744!I thought only the Free People or Men were feudal, for you know, orcs obviously didn't have that intelligence along with all kinds of personnel quality to be reliably authorized. For too many times, JRRT had mentioned without horribly well-centralized command system, the orcs would get into mutinies against their.

This is very true but Sauron who controlled all allowed some independence to the witch king his first in command. They were not feudal in the true sense of how the free peoples operated. And it was really only the witch king who was allowed some leeway and independent command.

 

[Hisoka Morrow]

...And it was really only the witch king who was allowed...

Oh, yes not all fallen creatures were idiots, in particular Nazguls. XD

 

[Elthir]

Gando, if you're looking for Tolkien's "wrathful" comment about (a depiction of) Legolas, it's in (at the end of the chapter maybe, or near-ish the end) The History of Eriol or Ælfwine, The Book of Lost Tales II.

We now have another source too: NOME! Descriptions of Characters.

I never thought the artist would turn out to be Pauline Baynes!

 

[Olorgando]

We now have another source too: NOME! Descriptions of Characters.
I never thought the artist would turn out to be Pauline Baynes!

[Book of Lost Tales II] Page 327 in my paperback, Christopher Tolkien commenting
'Long afterwards my father would write, in a wrathful comment on a ‘pretty’ or ‘ladylike’ pictorial rendering of Legolas:
“He was tall as a young tree, lithe, immensely strong, able swiftly to draw a great war-bow and shoot down a Nazgûl, endowed with the tremendous vitality of Elvish bodies, so hard and resistant to hurt that he went only in light shoes over rock or through snow, the most tireless of all the Fellowship.”'

Strictly speaking it's one source, JRRT's comments to the character depictions in that 1970 poster sized map by Pauline Baynes.
Christopher Tolkien just doesn't name the source explicitly in BoLT2, while Carl F. Hostetter does in NoMe.
The wording is identical.

 

[Elthir]

Yes, I merely meant that the quote in BOLT now appears in GNOME as well -- which now reveals the artist.

And in NOME the description of Legolas is longer and includes page references to The Lord of the Rings.

 

[Olorgando]

Yes, I merely meant that the quote in BOLT now appears in GNOME as well -- which now reveals the artist.
And in NOME the description of Legolas is longer and includes page references to The Lord of the Rings.

Yes, NoMe either expands or complements writings Christopher had already published in the volumes of HoMe in many cases.
That description of it as an "unofficial volume 13", now that I've read NoMe through once (selective readings are sure to follow), fits the bill quite well.
Unless one would argue that John D. Rateliff's 2007, originally two volumes of HoTH count as volumes 13 and 14 (and btw, the 2011 single-volume brick that I have is both revised and expanded), making NoMe volume 15. Add to that the Index volume for the 12 "official" HoMe volumes, UT ... 🤔

 

[Elassar]

I voted for the battle of pelenor fields due to another thread by @Turin_Turambar where he goes into detaild facts about population and size of land. One fact I distinctly remember was eriador is the same size as beleriand.