Lord of the Rings on Prime Updates (Thanks Varking!)

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

Hm. That is strange. Perhaps that is what he meant to convey?

 

[Radaghast]

His exact words (from one interview):

There will no longer be a time when you can say there are no elves of color. We erased that one.

Again, no he didn't. And no mention of Tolkien. If he is unaware that there is fantasy other than Tolkien in media that's his problem.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

I see... Okay. Thanks for explaining that.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

OMG! AN ACTOR MADE A MISTAKE! 😱

That tears it -- I certainly can't watch now. 😳

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

OMG! AN ACTOR MADE A MISTAKE! 😱

That tears it -- I certainly can't watch now. 😳

Fair point. I can feel the sarcasm....

 

[Radaghast]

OMG! AN ACTOR MADE A MISTAKE! 😱

That tears it -- I certainly can't watch now. 😳

Maybe it wasn't (just) his mistake. Also, if mistake, rather smugly made. And the showrunners and whoever else seem awfully ignorant about what exists in fantasy adaptations. Inexcusable, imho.

I'm not arguing for anybody not to watch it, btw 😁

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'm old enough to have read some of the stuff emitted by PJ's actors, back in the day. 😄

Edit: And PJ.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

I'm old enough to have read some of the stuff emitted by PJ's actors, back in the day. 😄

Edit: And PJ.

I gather your point fully, and it is a good one, I may add.

 

[d4rk3lf]

Is there something wrong with wanting more subscribers?.

Yes there is... Using Tolkien's name to enrage the fans, then use this rage to get more subs.
In my eyes, they are no different then Amazon

 

[Radaghast]

Yes there is... Using Tolkien's name to enrage the fans, then use this rage to get more subs.
In my eyes, they are no different then Amazon

What makes you say they're the ones enraging fans?

 

[d4rk3lf]

Anyway, do you think these YouTubers have nothing positive to say about anything?

Yes I do.
Their ultimate goal is to find sensitive places, so they get more subs.
If they were true Tolkien fans, they could address many failure in previous PJ Tolkien adaptations.

If they liked what they saw of the Amazon series, do you think they'd be silent about it?

Yes I do...
From all I can tell.. all they care about is subs...
like... Amazon..

 

[Radaghast]

 

[d4rk3lf]

But of course it is.
Why would you point this out at the first place?
To prove my point?
Lol..
Ok, thank you.

 

[Radaghast]

Well, it's just a judgement call and doesn't prove your point. I don't see any strong reason to agree that these folks are just after the likes and subscribes, etc. and don't really care about the property. The reason they have channels at all is they like talking about the subjects of the video.

Also, I agree there should be more video criticism of PeeJay's films (part of the reason I dislike what I'm seeing of the RoP series is that it's going to put his films on an even higher pedestal) but I'm sure there are videos praising it, which proves such videos aren't always negative.

 

[Elbereth Vala Varda]

In the end, absolutely everything about this is purely opinion.

 

[arivista]

As for Ismael Cruz Cordova, he is miscast as Middle-earth elf in my eyes, whether black elves can or cannot be proven canon.
He might be believable as, say, a Witcher elf, but not a Tolkien one - at least not to me. It takes more to make an elf than just pointy ears.

I believe Tolkien elves should radiate with immense, ethereal kind of beauty, there should be something "other-worldly" about them, if I may say.

It is debatable, whether all PJ's elves have that, but for example Arwen does, I think (this has nothing to do with her role in the movies, just overall appearance and visual impression).

But I simply don't see anything like that in Ismael Cruz Cordova. I think there are some black actors who might have it, but he doesn't. Most of RoP elvish actors don't, actually. Gil-galad looks OK so far, at least in comparison,

And don't get me wrong, it is really difficult to make a believable Tolkien elf, and many (most, actually) people probably can't, regardles how good actors they might be. I, for example, could never convey adequate Tolkien elf, even if I was top level actor on par with, say, Daniel Day-Lewis. I simply don't have appearance for it.

 

[Radaghast]

about the canonical and non canonical characters in TROP:

So, 22 or 23 out of 37 characters that weren't created by Tolkien. Interesting.

 

[Elthir]

Part One of a longer response on beards (to d4rk3lf who didn't ask for a longer response, along with nobody else)

In my opinion, "Gimli's" description in Appendix A is about far more than beards: it's about Dwarf-women being indistinguishable from Dwarven-men in the eyes of other races -- except for clothing -- but even this concerns when the female Dwarves are not normally seen by other folk,

Also, and not to get pedantic but (pedantic alert), I'm not sure we certainly know what it is about Dwarf-clothing that distinguishes a female dwarf from a male dwarf, despite that one may jump to conclusions based upon how other folk dress.

Anyway, as noted but not fully quoted, the idea that Dwarf-women cannot be told apart from Dwarf-men (again, given the author-published exception) is also supported in the posthumously published Silmarillion texts: there it's said that Dwarven womankind cannot be discerned by those of other race: not in feature, not in gait, not in voice, "nor in any wise save this" -- and here the "this" is that the woman go not to war, and seldom leave their deep bowers and halls.

Tolkien even went so far as to muse that because Aule had only made males, Eru would not amend that work [except the obvious refashioning, I must assume, referring to that which would not be obvious to other races, given clothes]


Also, I note that Jackson's Film-Gimli says that Dwarf-women are so alike in voice and appearance that they are "often mistaken" for Dwarf-men.

In Appendix A, Tolkien's Gimli writes: "They are in voice and appearance, and in garb if they must go on a journey, so like to the dwarf-men that the eyes and ears of other peoples cannot tell them apart."

Well, if I (not being a Tolkienian Dwarf) can't tell male and female Dwarves apart by voice or appearance, then I guess I would very likely make a "mistake" -- but an entirely expected one,
in any case.


Part Three

[part two was never written due to post-length considerations]

An unasked for aside on GLWB (Gandalf's Long White Beard -- although if I had just written that out in the first place, I could have saved time and space here): is Jackson's Gandalf's The Hobbit's beard spot on?

According to the text, Gandalf's long "white" beard is supposed to have "hung down below his waist."

And no way I'm watching any film that doesn't have:

1) a Gandalfian beard clearly beyond this wizard's waist

B) or -- an unusually high-waisted actor playing Gandalf

Part Four
Aside for another thread: did Tolkien's Gandalf's beard include hair above the lips?

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'm not sure we certainly know what it is about Dwarf-clothing that distinguishes a female dwarf from a male dwarf

Those cute rosettes on their mail shirts?

According to the text, Gandalf's long "white" beard is supposed to have "hung down below his waist."

If you insist on that, would you also demand the "long bushy eyebrows that stuck out further than the brim of his shady hat"?

I wouldn't -- too much like "Gandalf the Insect" for my taste. 😳

 

[Elthir]

Even Tolkien appears to have wanted to drop this detail about Gandalf's eyebrows -- considering his revision to the 1960 Hobbit . . .

. . . but this, along with the dried goblin blood on Beater and Biter, didn't make it into the third edition Hobbit for some reason . . . and anyway, Tolkien had published these eyebrows in The Lord of the Rings too!

🐾