Was Morgoth's Ring written before or after NoME? Because that might help to clarify it.
........True. I guess I never bothered to check. I'm away from my books at the moment.
Ah, I see. No wonder you asked.
"Morgoth's Ring" by Christopher Tolkien as editor was published in 1993. Carl F. Hostetter's "The Nature of Middle-earth" was published in 2021.
Ah - that settles it then! Hannon-le!
Correct. In the foreword to „Morgoth’s Ring” Christopher states that rather than divide it and its successor, “The War of the Jewels” (1994), into their real-world times of creation (after JRRT had finished writing LoTR but pre-publication, and after its publication), he decided to divide them into the M-e internal chronology – “Annals of Aman” and “Annals of Beleriand”, so to speak. But all of the material in NoMe belongs to the time of the later writings of MR and WoTJ, if not even later, very definitely not to that of the pre-LoTR-publication material.
So which do you two think is the more accurate aging scheme?
All of them...
I think it's the one I'll stick with. Otherwise I, too, would need to revise a great many dates and people.
Yes, actually. It seems to indicate that the "life-cycles" were a concept Tolkien was planning on implementing. As far as aging, I think the NoME were sketches he wanted to implement but ultimately couldn't fit into his chronology. I will accept it's abandonment (if only because I need to for my own stories).Well before NOME was published, I had posted a collection of citations [from HOME and UT] about Elvish ageing, but it's now obsolete. Huzzah! And there was much rejoicing.
In those posts however, I did [usually try to] include the "nette remark" as I'll call it, which I used as
a last example [given its late date], which description had already been published in Vinyar Tengwar [before NOME].
Today [post NOME] to try to put all or most of the relevant descriptions in a single post, would include more typing! And would probably burn mortal minds, if seen all together and at once.
So briefly and basically, I'll give it an updated try, hopefully correct in its brevity: NOME supplies a number [bunch] of relevant texts dating from circa 1959 -- and some text dated around 1965 --
and then some even later stuff, dated below, which could be called the . . .
Elvish Life Cycle texts:
Text 1: "The Elvish lives should go in cycles. ( . . .)"
Carl Hostetter notes that there is no reason to think that this text does not date from around 1969.
Text 2: "Elves lived in life-cycles? sc. birth, childhood to bodily and mental maturity (as swift as that of Men) . . ." c. 1969
See also a note associated with The Shibboleth of Feanor [1968]: about Elves not normally having beards until they entered their "third cycle of life."
"Nette remark"
"nette meant "girl approaching the adult" (in her "teens": the growth of Elvish children after birth was little if at all slower than that of the children of Men). The Common Eldarin stem (wen-ed) wendé "maiden" applied to all stages up to the fully adult (until marriage)." JRRT, from Vinyar Tengwar 47, texts generally dated 1967-70 (reproduced in NOME as well)
Okay. Cough. Crickets.
Any of that help?
He had various 'growth years' to adulthood (144, 100, 12, 3, 1 IIRC), some of the shorter ones could work.
I believe NoME said it was comparative to humans, it was just elves age at 144th the rate (in Valinor) but 10th the rate in Middle-Earth.
To be fair, the Elves started that BEFORE men started interacting with them. Also Elves might grow old, they just don't die. I believe Tolkien toyed with the idea of a need to "regenerate" and "de-age" with diminishing returns.
Elves would indeed grow old - if not physically, at least in other ways, or else why would many have felt weary of the world by the Third Age?
Via the Valar? Nay...'tis not so. 'Tis not on our part.
