Rings of Power Stuff

[Halasían]

I still crack up at all the time and efforts some people are putting in keep dissing on a TV show they don't like. 😆

 

[Olorgando]

I still crack up at all the time and efforts some people are putting in keep dissing on a TV show they don't like. 😆

Dude, you've been active on the Internet over a decade longer than I have (a bit over 9 years) at home.
You should know by now that there are at least two categories of such people:
- The hate-spewers from some cesspit who don't give a 💩 about the OP topic, they just take every topic as an occasion to spew their toxic bile.
- Those with some knowledge of a topic, probably more often nerds with quite a bit more than just some, who find some ignoramuses totally warping the "message", for lack of a better word, in their "adaptation" of an original. Besides the ignoramuses, there are at times those from category 1 whose warping is intentional. Verbally nuking this bunch is only justified.

 

[Aldarion]

I still crack up at all the time and efforts some people are putting in keep dissing on a TV show they don't like. 😆

Usually I don't. If I don't like a TV show, I ignore it - new Star Trek, new Star Wars, last seasons of Game of Thrones, and so on. But when that TV show is dragging the name of the author and the setting I do like through the mud, then it is definitely something I cannot just pass over.

Well, I'd guess they just take their orders from their boss.
I think it was part way through the second clip that I started thinking that RoP's Guyadriel may be Bezorc's very personal Mary Sue in this stuff.

Bezorc tells the showrunners something like "here's the stuff from the author that we can use ... what's-his-name ... funny thing is his name sounds almost the same as that of the author who wrote the GoT books ...
Anyway, there's some names that we'll be using, but most of the others you can invent.
Then there's these maps with the places the characters will be running around in, again we'll use some names ... you get the idea.
But I want the lead character to adhere to this document!
It's my mission statement ... no, no, not the one I gave to the PR folks, the real one!
So you can't keep a copy, just get in the spirit of what's in it. And I'd appreciate the other characters not straying too far from it either."

'Course, you can probably substitute the name of any IT bigwig whose company has metastasized since the turn of the century - Goo, FB, etc. - and others who have only dabbled in IT like Muskrat etc.

That actually isn't something that occured to me, but... yeah, considering how many self-insert Mary Sues are there in modern productions, I really should have considered it.

EDIT: A good video on failures of the show:

 

[Halasían]

Dude, you've been active on the Internet over a decade longer than I have (a bit over 9 years) at home.
You should know by now that there are at least two categories of such people:
- The hate-spewers from some cesspit who don't give a 💩 about the OP topic, they just take every topic as an occasion to spew their toxic bile.
- Those with some knowledge of a topic, probably more often nerds with quite a bit more than just some, who find some ignoramuses totally warping the "message", for lack of a better word, in their "adaptation" of an original. Besides the ignoramuses, there are at times those from category 1 whose warping is intentional. Verbally nuking this bunch is only justified.

Yes, I know. I just said it cracks me up. 😆

Usually I don't. If I don't like a TV show, I ignore it - new Star Trek, new Star Wars, last seasons of Game of Thrones, and so on. But when that TV show is dragging the name of the author and the setting I do like through the mud, then it is definitely something I cannot just pass over.

Ah, the 'I'm protecting Tolkien's name' reason. That one really cracks me up. 😆
It doesn't matter to me how many Anti-Rings of Power youtube leech videos you post in my thread, it appears pathetic. Anyway, knock yourself out.

 

[Aldarion]

Ah, the 'I'm protecting Tolkien's name' reason. That one really cracks me up. 😆

I don't need to protect anybody's name. But I don't want people to get an idea that Rings of Power are somehow a "Tolkien" or "Tolkien-inspired" work, when they are not. Bloody Eragon shows more respect towards Tolkien than Rings of Power do. Yet how many people who watch the series you think will read the book?

I mean, these guys turned hobbits evil:

 

[Halasían]

... how many people who watch the series you think will read the book?

I know of a lot of people who picked up a Tolkien book for the first time after seeing Rings of Power. They also are deeply interested and they have questions. It's awesome discussing Middle Earth with them. It is unfortunate that some places are polluted with toxic hatred for the show for many to want to mention how they came to know Tolkien and Middle Earth for fear of being dogpiled on, which is sad. That gatekeeper attitude does more to turn new people off from Tolkien than Rings of Power ever has. It's just the way it is.

 

[Olorgando]

I know of a lot of people who picked up a Tolkien book for the first time after seeing Rings of Power. They also are deeply interested and they have questions. It's awesome discussing Middle Earth with them.

And how are the discussions with the film- / TV-only crowd?

 

[Halasían]

And how are the discussions with the film- / TV-only crowd?

Typical assumption there Gandolorian. There are plenty of old book guys among the crowd who are quite accommodating to those who just found out about Tolkien and Middle Earth. It's rather pleasant, like days of yore.

Edit: To answer the Gandolorian below as it isn't worthy of another post (it might be too complicated for him to figure out though), it is going great. Questions, measured discourse, answers, and an awesome experience interacting with people just now learning of the world of Middle Earth that Tolkien created. All without the condensation and repeated bleating of how much Rings of Power sucks, etc. with the accompanying youtube videos. It's quite a pleasant environment. Anyway, since I've been here on this site more-or-less for 22 years, I still come by now and again.... well, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Olorgando]

Typical assumption there Gandolorian. There are plenty of old book guys among the crowd who are quite accommodating to those who just found out about Tolkien and Middle Earth. It's rather pleasant, like days of yore.

You didn't answer my question.
If by "those who just found out about Tolkien and Middle Earth" you mean the film- / TV-only crowd, you know that they have "found out" about Middle-earth to varying degrees, and about JRRT to a lesser degree in each of the three cases.

PJ's LoTR: names, places, the route "there and back again" quite faithfully; individual scenes and characterization riddled with PJ's forgeries, character assassinations in some cases.
PJ's TH: names, places, the route "there and back again" faithful in the main, but with significant deviations; additional non-canon characters, non-canon locations (that utterly ridiculous "tomb of the Nazgûl"), scenes and characterizations again riddled with PJ's forgeries, padding ad nauseam.
RoP: names of people and places that also occur in JRRT's writings, the rest a fabrication along generic fantasy blockbuster lines, apparently (from comments I've read and heard) badly written and badly directed, often making no sense.

If this makes them want to go to the source, JRRT's writing, fine, as is being accommodating to them.

If they couldn't care less about the books but believe they have "found out" about Middle-earth, they are increasingly mistaken the newer the "adaptation". Even for the original 2001-2003 film trilogy, if they think they have "found out" about JRRT and his vision of Middle-earth they are sadly mistaken, as PJ flatly contradicts what JRRT wrote in the book, and never mind the lengthy explanations to be found in "Letters". And this in points absolutely central and important to JRRT. They have "found out" about PJ's take on the stories, on how he thought they should be told (as he perhaps inadvertently confessed several times, often simply because he didn't understand JRRT's point).
Whether there is anything to be "found out" about RoP, let alone M-e, looks like a doubtful proposition, by many comment).

 

[Aldarion]

I know of a lot of people who picked up a Tolkien book for the first time after seeing Rings of Power. They also are deeply interested and they have questions. It's awesome discussing Middle Earth with them. It is unfortunate that some places are polluted with toxic hatred for the show for many to want to mention how they came to know Tolkien and Middle Earth for fear of being dogpiled on, which is sad. That gatekeeper attitude does more to turn new people off from Tolkien than Rings of Power ever has. It's just the way it is.

And I have already acknowledged that it is one good thing about the Rings of Power. Problem is, it is the only good thing about the Rings of Power, so unless literally every single RoP watcher picks up Tolkien's books afterwards, the overall effect may still be negative.

Also, I have seen very little actually toxic hatred for the show. From what I have seen, nobody really cares how somebody came to enjoy Tolkien, so long as they don't do stuff like acting as if the show/movie version is the "correct one" or the "only one that exists". Pointing out flaws of something doesn't constitute "toxic hatred". If anything, it is the showmakers who show toxic hatred towards anything Tolkien...

 

[Ent]

unless literally every single RoP watcher picks up Tolkien's books afterwards, the overall effect may still be negative

My dear Aldarion, you know I am more than happy you have an opinion on these matters, and am also happy to let you have it. Opinions are, of course, personally formed, and personally held.

You know in return, I have one. (or 3. or maybe 5.) So in response to your statement "unless..every single..watcher picks up books..." it may still be negative... let me add my own thought. (Translate that 'opinion' please.)

1. I'm thankful you say "may" rather than "will". You keep it in its proper element.
2. My thought on the matter: if ANY ONE individual has picked up a book as a result, it has been worth it.

Amazon has spent the millions/billions, not me. They have done so legally. If they drive a convert to the True Tolkien, though it was an expensive investment, it has been worth it.

Could they have driven far more had they done a far better job? Of course, likely so.
But I would bring along this further thought. (translate that 'opinion' please.)

For the die-hard movie watchers and book avoiders, it most likely simply makes no difference at all. It doesn't matter how well done it is or was, they're just not going to pick up a book. They want to be spoon fed. They don't want to 'work' for their entertainment - and for their kind, reading is work.

I suspect to the core of my roots, there is at the end of the day very little impact change based on the "nature" and/or "accuracy" of what is depicted.

If we want to discuss the potential impact of the "quality" of what's depicted, that is another matter. Good quality MAY sway some few others. But think on this: those who don't know Tolkien and want to be spoon fed, are also, frankly, not very keen on quality. That ability to distinguish also takes work. They just want the spoon.

So as I consider this latest round of "Romping Around On RoP Grounds", having considered, my personal opinion hasn't changed.
I'm thankful it's there. It's not what I would have preferred. It's given a lot of opportunity for discussion. It's seen some few more people pick up a book. The rest don't care. And it's provided GREAT fodder for those who need something to focus on, a focal point.

In every way, I can't help but see the results of its being made a 'good thing' as everyone that has touched it has made a choice. And when people make choices, they are generally happy. It's when they make no choice - when they are in limbo - they are most unsettled.

So at the very top of my list, I'm thankful those who decry the thing to such extents have made a choice, as for all their dismay over it, they are, nonetheless, happy in the choice they have made.

 

[Aldarion]

ACOUP blog nitpicking Rings of Power:

Collections: The Nitpicks of Power, Part I: Exploding Forges

This week we’re going to return to Amazon’s Rings of Power, as promised in the first post there were a plethora of smaller believably and realism issues with in the show that I wanted t…

acoup.blog

Collections: The Nitpicks of Power, Part II: Falling Towers

This is the second part of a three part (I, II, III) look at the issue of of historical realism in Amazon’s Rings of Power, following on our more substantive discussion of the major worldbuil…

acoup.blog

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

What does he have to say about PJ?

 

[Aldarion]

What does he have to say about PJ?

Basically? That he does OK at adapting stuff, but has massive issues due to obsession with unnecessary conflict.

You can read his essays on PJ works here:

The Battle of Helm’s Deep – A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry

Posts about The Battle of Helm’s Deep written by Bret Devereaux

acoup.blog

Siege of Gondor – A Collection of Unmitigated Pedantry

Posts about Siege of Gondor written by Bret Devereaux

acoup.blog

 

[Tar-Elenion]

What does he have to say about PJ?

If you are actually interested, he has a lengthy (6 part) series critiquing the Siege of Gondor and another lengthy (8 part) series critiquing Helm's Deep:

Collections: The Siege of Gondor, Part I: Professionals Talk Logistics

(Note: Thanks to the effort of a kind reader, this post is now available in audio format! The playlist for the entire series may be found here.) This is the first part of a six-part (II, III, IV, V…

acoup.blog

Collections: The Battle of Helm’s Deep, Part I: Bargaining for Goods at Helm’s Gate

This is the long-awaited first part of a series (I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII. VIII) taking a historian’s look at the Battle of Helm’s Deep from both J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Two Towers…

acoup.blog

 

[Red Leaf]

I've enjoyed it. I like that the characters don't seem to be fully formed yet because things that make them who they are by the time of LotR haven't happened yet...

I like that Halbrand/Sauron isn't, I think, quite as dedicated to either evil or dominion as he becomes - he wasn't created evil, he was once a Smith, perhaps he does hanker after a quiet life with a forge, and drawings, and ideas of beautiful things, or perhaps (like many of us with complicated lives) he occasionally fantasises about just walking out on all the crap and being a shepherd on a Scottish island with a wall full of books, a dog, a bottle of whiskey and no phone reception... Few of us do it of course, but I think most of us dream about it occasionally while the kids are bickering about Netflix...

I don't particularly care that it's not 'canon'. I don't watch TV to either pick holes in stuff I don't like, I simply want to enjoy it, and if I don't enjoy it I watch something else...

 

[Aldarion]

The good, the bad and the ugly of armor in Rings of Power:

Private Site

 

[Deimos]

The good, the bad and the ugly of armor in Rings of Power:

Private Site

What is "donut armour" ?

 

[d4rk3lf]

What is "donut armour" ?

Cop's uniform.

 

[Deimos]

Cop's uniform.

Oh...like Star Wars storm trooper armour?