Who's a Noldor, Who's a Sindar, & Who's a Dark 🧝Elf?

[Slimybug]

Hi all! After reading LotR for about the 4th time, I finally am making it through The Silmarillion! Boy is it dense, and I'm frustratingly unclear as to certain questions and timeline points, so I decided to use Tolkien gateway and "cheat" as I read the book, getting answers the book doesn't seem to be answering, from whatever source TG gets them from.

I was wondering who is of what race of Elves, and boy are there a lot of them. But if we can keep it simple and say Noldor (High Elf), Sindar (Grey Elf) and Dark Delf, that's good enough for me.

One thing TG points out is that Cirdan is a Sindar. But reading the books, it seems to say that Cirdan very specifically never set off for Valinor. So how could he be a Sindar, as that's the very definition of a Dark elf?

I'm also interested in the ages of the different elves. There seems to be three different eras an elf can be born in.
1) Born in Cuivienen, before the Sundering, possibly even one of the original 144,
2) Born in Valinor.
3) Born after the return to Middle-earth.

What I find so interesting is that when the Three Rings were ultimately made, they went to one of each: Cirdan, born in Cuivienen, Galadriel, born in Valinor, and Gil-galad, born after the return. And they were made by Celebrimbor, who lies in the middle, being born in Valinor. I'm not sure if Tolkien intended it this way or not, but it fits pretty nicely.

 

[LaurelinBearsFruit]

I think many others will second this statement, but much of the Silmarillion is indeed confusing and much of what is contained within is later contradicted by many of Tolkien's other works, such as the History of M-E series, Unfinished Tales, etc. I think any effort to have a "complete" grasp of timelines, people, and places is futile to some degree, though many of the major trends seem often to fit amongst the various revisions that Tolkien continued to make throughout his life.

A glorious member on here (who it is eludes me at the moment) posted an illustrated family tree that also serves as a major-event timeline of sorts. If I can find it, I will amend this post and link it.

 

[Ent]

A glorious member on here (who it is eludes me at the moment) posted an illustrated family tree that also serves as a major-event timeline of sort

Click on 'Family Tree" on the gray bar at top, located between "Forums" and "Wiki".

It's an amazing display of all things 'tree' (Except for the Ents, of course.)

 

[Elthir]

One thing TG points out is that Cirdan is a Sindar. But reading the books, it seems to say that Cirdan very specifically never set off for Valinor. So how could he be a Sindar, as that's the very definition of a Dark elf?

The Sindar ("Grey Ones") are technically Dark Elves (Q. Moriquendi). From the constructed Silmarillion:

"They are called the Sindar, the Grey-elves of starlit Beleriand; and although they were Moriquendi, under the lordship of Thingol and the teaching of Melian they became the fairest and the most wise and skilful of all the Elves of Middle-earth." Of the Sindar

In "unpublished" writing (that is, writing not published by JRRT), at one point Tolkien noted that the Sindar did not like being called Moriquendi, and the Noldor modified their use of the term. This idea was published in the text Quendi and Eldar, in The War of the Jewels.

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[Slimybug]

The Sindar ("Grey Ones") are technically Dark Elves (Q. Moriquendi). From the constructed Silmarillion:

"They are called the Sindar, the Grey-elves of starlit Beleriand; and although they were Moriquendi, under the lordship of Thingol and the teaching of Melian they became the fairest and the most wise and skilful of all the Elves of Middle-earth." Of the Sindar

In "unpublished" writing (that is, writing not published by JRRT), at one point Tolkien noted that the Sindar did not like being called Moriquendi, and the Noldor modified their use of the term. This idea was published in the text Quendi and Eldar, in The War of the Jewels.

🐾

Still, from what I read, and maybe I need to read it again, Cirdan never went so far along the road as to be considered a Sindar, only staying behind. So I'm still very confused as to where he is referred to as a Sindar, and where TG and the LOTR fandom are getting their source.

 

[Olorgando]

All of the Elves which reached the western shores of Middle-earth in the Great March, but did not go on over the sea to Valinor, are called Sindar. These were all Teleri in the published Silmarillion, while all of the Vanyar and Noldor went to Valinor. Cirdan reached the western shore of M-e, so he's a Sinda.
Here's a tree of the Elven kindreds from my copy of the published Silmarillion:

 

[Elthir]

Still, from what I read, and maybe I need to read it again, Cirdan never went so far along the road as to be considered a Sindar, only staying behind. So I'm still very confused as to where he is referred to as a Sindar, and where TG and the LOTR fandom are getting their source.

Maybe part of the confusion is the change of names, as (certain) "Telerin" Elves came to be called Sindar, for example.

In Of Eldamar it's said that Osse persuaded some of the Teleri to remain in Middle-earth, the Falathrim ["People of the Foaming Shore"]: "who in after days had dwellings at the haven of Brithombar and Eglarest, the first mariners in Middle-earth and the first makers of ships. Círdan was their lord."

And jumping ahead to Of The Sindar: "Now as has been told the power of Elwe and Melian increased in Middle-earth, and all the Elves of Beleriand, from the mariners of Círdan to the wandering hunters of the Blue Mountains beyond the River Gelion, owned Elwe as their lord; Elu Thingol he was called, King Greymantle, in the tongue of his people. They are called the Sindar, the Grey-elves of starlit Beleriand; and although they were Moriquendi. . . (continue as above)"

Also, in a late text (Círdan, The Peoples of Middle-earth), Tolkien went into more detail about Círdan remaining in Middle-earth. The manuscript explains: "Círdan was a Telerin Elf, one of the highest of those who were not transported to Valinor but became known as the Sindar, the Grey Elves."

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