How come Tolkien didn't like Jazz?

[herlig9]

I mean you can never go wrong with "Cab Calloway" music.
I think Classic Rock personally is kinda outdated with Modern Rock, in my view atleast since that music just shakes the house down more.

But Cab Calloway. Absolutely! Still amazing to this date!

edit: Come to think about it. Would this dancing be seen as appropriate by Tolkien?

 

[Ent]

Simply put, Sir herlig9, Tolkien was very much a traditionalist - even a classicist.
He disliked much of the "20th century modernism." He saw the newer music as 'vulgar corruptions of the modern day" - just as he saw much of the rest of his day as 'corrupted by the mechanism.'

In other words - it was his opinion, and he stuck to it. (I say 'opinion' here, rather than 'perspective', for very specific reasons. But I withhold further explanation so as not to bore the Forum.)

 

[herlig9]

Simply put, Sir herlig9, Tolkien was very much a traditionalist - even a classicist.
He disliked much of the "20th century modernism." He saw the newer music as 'vulgar corruptions of the modern day" - just as he saw much of the rest of his day as 'corrupted by the mechanism.'

In other words - it was his opinion, and he stuck to it. (I say 'opinion' here, rather than 'perspective', for very specific reasons. But I withhold further explanation so as not to bore the Forum.)

I respect that!

I guess lot of people viewed Jazz as rebelious and vulgar at the time. I guess i think out of music from 20th century. Cab Calloway is likely the most timeless best one. I can recognize some of that inspiration in the old school Tom and Jerry cartoon aswell

 

[Ent]

I respect that!

Yeah. The problem with it is over-generalization. Not all that is new, is bad.
Tolkien tended to clump 'the whole' together and judge it all through the same lens, rather than "looking for the good amidst the bad" - i.e. being intentional about his likes, and dislikes.

It's much easier and takes far less time to generalize and dismiss "it all" than it is to actually engage with it, and make informed determinations.

Sadly, Tolkien himself was in many arenas subject to living a generalist life. (as are we all, if we're honest with ourselves and everyone else, about how we apply our lenses to the world around us.)

 

[herlig9]

Yeah. The problem with it is over-generalization. Not all that is new, is bad.
Tolkien tended to clump 'the whole' together and judge it all through the same lens, rather than "looking for the good amidst the bad" - i.e. being intentional about his likes, and dislikes.

It's much easier and takes far less time to generalize and dismiss "it all" than it is to actually engage with it, and make informed determinations.

Sadly, Tolkien himself was in many arenas subject to living a generalist life. (as are we all, if we're honest with ourselves and everyone else, about how we apply our lenses to the world around us.)

I like to imagine he threw the radio in the trash when Rock n Roll on radio became more normal. But i guess you could say he would prefer lifestyle of Ents in LOTR books. (But maybe not Treants from Warcraft 3 game)

 

[Deimos]

Yeah. The problem with it is over-generalization. Not all that is new, is bad.
Tolkien tended to clump 'the whole' together and judge it all through the same lens, rather than "looking for the good amidst the bad" - i.e. being intentional about his likes, and dislikes.

It's much easier and takes far less time to generalize and dismiss "it all" than it is to actually engage with it, and make informed determinations.

Sadly, Tolkien himself was in many arenas subject to living a generalist life. (as are we all, if we're honest with ourselves and everyone else, about how we apply our lenses to the world around us.)

Well, except you can't "engage every thing/subject" separately; there isn't enough time in a life to do that. So one generalizes.
It is hoped that in making generalizations they are not just pulled out of the blue.
This is where prescription, precedent, and tradition come into play. You avoid wasting time "re-inventing the wheel."

 

[herlig9]

Ok. I kinda figured out now, why Tolkien might have hated Jazz.

I decided to get Best of Cab Calloway

I have the CD albums. And... its honestly really timeless great sound. It could be over 100 years and still sound great.

But i was also super ignorant to some of the explicit tone to some of the verses "Minnie the Moocher" sounds... tame. Just a funny song about someone being greedy "Well that didnt mean it back then, back then it meant something more sexually explicit like a belly dancer or something"

There is also other hints in his songs.

So... i can kinda get why Tolkien didnt like them. The music sounds really amazingly well made though, really catchy very easy to like, which is a shame. But on a religious ethical reason, i can see why Tolkien might have hated them

 

[Deimos]

How come Tolkien didn't like Jazz?​

He was possessed of exquisitely discerning taste. 😉
(As you can tell, I am a member of the "Tolkien not a fan of Jazz" club)

 

[Eljorahir]

Just curious: What exactly did Tolkien say about "jazz"? I found a bit about jive (swing) and boogie-woogie. Is this it?

from a letter to Christopher 30 January 1945:
I read eagerly all details of your life, and the things you see and do – and suffer, Jive and Boogie-Woogie among them. You will have no heart-tug at losing that (for it is essentially vulgar, music corrupted by the mechanism, echoing in dreary unnourished heads), but you'll remember the other things, even the storms and the dry veld and even the smells of camp, when you return to this other land.

 

[herlig9]

Unsure how accurate this video is or not.
But it did make me laugh. From what i get. (This ONE Jazz artist offended so many Jazz artists back then)
Because... from what i could hear out of the video example. His Jazz music sounded like Musical farts. (maybe he was a troll, who knows)