⚔️battle of 5 or 6 armys?

Dûndorer · Mar 9, 2002

do anyone think that the war should have been called the battle of 6 armys?

1)elfs
2)men
3)dwarfs
4)orcs
5)wargs
*6)eagles*

that would be 6.

Lillyaundra · Mar 9, 2002

Yes their were 6 types of creaturs, but the wargs should not count because there only used like we use horses. As a ride.

Dûndorer · Mar 9, 2002

thats true but i just wantted some other peoples thoughts. because i wasnt sure.

Lillyaundra · Mar 9, 2002

By the way Welcome!!!

Thoughts are what this forum is all about!!

Legolam · Mar 9, 2002

But the eagles didn't fight in my recollection ...

And even if they did, they were LATE!!!

Mormegil · Mar 9, 2002

I always thought that the Wargs and Orcs counted as one army.

Lillyaundra · Mar 10, 2002

I agree they are one army, but they had the fighting power of two.

Beleg Strongbow · Mar 10, 2002

I would say that the eagles didn't count. Welcome

Dûndorer · Mar 10, 2002

yea, if any of the armys dont count i would have gone with the eagles beacase their not on any ones side. thier just against the orcs.

but i do think that wargs were a part of it. becase if wargs and orcs count as one army then it would be called the battle of 3 armys...

1) wargs + orcs
2) men + elfs + dwarfs
3) eagles

if the wargs and orcs are together shouldn't every one be put together on the side that they were on.

Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn · Mar 10, 2002

If the wargs were simply "mounts", then it's reasonable to lump them together with their riders.

After all, we don't count Patton's tanks as one army, and the tank crews as another!

Dûndorer · Mar 10, 2002

yes true, i dont have my book with me but, cant the wargs attack on their own. werent the wargs the first ones to attack when bilbo, gandalf and the dwarvs were in the trees?¿?¿?¿?

so, i would say that what your saying is true if the wargs were just like a pony or a horse or something. but i never seen a pony attack someone.

DGoeij · Mar 10, 2002

Good ole Bill gave mr. Ferny one heck of a kick.

The Wargs chased Gandalf, Bilbo and the Dwarves up in the trees, but then came the orcs to do them in. I'd say the bad guys represent one single army. The men, elves and dwarves operated as different armies, even if the elves and men arrived at the same time. Together with the eagles that makes 5.
Unless we wish to take Beorn into account. IMHO that is an army by himself.

Legolam · Mar 10, 2002

And before anyone jumps in here and says that tanks attack people, they don't do it under their own steam ie autonomously (I've always wanted to use that word!

)

Dûndorer · Mar 10, 2002

i still think that the wargs and orcs are seprate.

i think that the eagles are nutral, because i remember gandalf or maybe it was someone else im not sure but one of them said that the eagles hate the orcs and arent on anyones side. or something like that. i wish i had my book to look it up, but my friend is barrowing it for a while.

Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn · Mar 10, 2002

Barrowing it? I sure hope he doesn't get caught by wights!

DGoeij · Mar 11, 2002

LOL, Donnie B. In that case you can say bye bye to the book, Dûndorer. I think I understand what you mean, but try to type a little slower. My English is fine, but not that good.

I think we are talking about armies here, not sides. And if one wishes to consider the Wargs a seperate army, I'd say the bats are one too. Which makes it the Battle of the Seven Armies.

But IMHO, an army can be a very diverse entity. The orcish army was made up of foot-soldiers, Orcs on Wargs (wargs on their own?) and bats. Still, I think it is one single army.

Grond · Mar 11, 2002

'So began a battle that none had expected; and it was called the Battle of Five Armies, and it was very terrible. Upon one side were the Goblins and the wild Wolves, and upon the other were Elves and Men and Dwarves.'
The Hobbit 17 The Clouds Burst

When in doubt, always go to the book. The Eagles, in the author's opinion, were not construed to be an army and were not counted.

DGoeij · Mar 11, 2002

I should have read the book again. I never knew that the Eagles weren't considered an army by professor Tolkien himself. Thanks Grond.

Personally I'd consider the Eagles as an army though. Even if they didn't use any kind of weapons (besides beak and claws, that is).

Grond · Mar 11, 2002

I doubt that the Eagles were there in any substantial numbers. There value was in knocking the Orcs from the heights and instilling fear in general. (Nothing like an aerial assault to strike fear in the hearts of the enemy.) I would surmise that there were no more than twenty or thirty Eagles and that would hardly comprise an Army in my opinion. So, I guess I'll have to side with the good Professor on this one.

Durin of moria · Mar 11, 2002

What about the bats? they were there.
Sure they did not kill anyone, but they had to poop some where.

⚔️battle of 5 or 6 armys?

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