🧙Gandalf's Homework

Huan · Feb 21, 2003

Now I'm a big Gandalf fan but something struck me the other day about him. Given that his sole purpose in Middle Earth is to combat Sauron and that Sauron's power rests almost entirely in a ring, surley it would have made sense for Gandalf to upon his arrival or soon after to atleast make a bit of a study of the ring ie what it looked like with regard to inscriptions and fire writing on it etc..

And surely if he became aware that a ring that turned the wearer invisible was found randomly then alarm bells would have been going off in his head. It seems to take him a while to findout the truth. I mean reading the scrolls of Isildur earlier on would've have saved alot of hassle as the simple test could have been done. I'm looking forward to people opposing this simplistic view of things.........

Aulë · Feb 21, 2003

Gandalf would have thought that the Ring was lost at sea, so I doubt he would have thought that studying would be nessesary.
Also, Saruman studied the Ring, so Gandalf would have thought that if he had any inquiries about the Ring, he'd just consult Saruman.

Confusticated · Feb 21, 2003

I too, find it a little hard to swallow that Gandalf took as long as he did to find out that it was the One Ring.

All things considered, it seems to me a big miss.

My explaination is that the idea of it being the One Ring was so terrifing that Gandalf did not allow it to enter his mind until it was so blatant that he could not look past it.

Aragorn21 · Feb 21, 2003

All things considered, it seems to me a big miss

Yeah, same here.

Welcome to the forum Huan.

Huan · Feb 21, 2003

thanks aragorn

Glomund · Feb 21, 2003

You all have to remember the things that were working against Gandalf.
1st, there was the fact that there were many rings that could make the wearer invisible, the 9, 7, 3, and 1 were just the most powerful, made when the proccess had been perfected. (pg56 FotR) and in the Hobbit Bilbo had heard tales of such things, so there must have been a few floating around in the old days.
2nd, Saruman had studied the ring, and Gandalf considered him the expert on the rings and "the greatest of my order". Saruman said he had discovered that the ring had fallen into the river and rolled down into the sea. Gandalf believed this explanation and therefore did not immediatly assume the worst about Bilbos ring.
3rd, Tolkien probably had know idea what the ring was when Bilbo found it, and therefore should be excused a few plot loopholes.

Gothmog · Feb 21, 2003

Originally posted by Nóm
My explaination is that the idea of it being the One Ring was so terrifing that Gandalf did not allow it to enter his mind until it was so blatant that he could not look past it.

Interesting idea. Why don't we just ask Gandalf himself to throw some light onto this question?

Gandalf fell silent, gazing eastward from the porch to the far peaks of the Misty Mountains, at whose great roots the peril of the world had so long lain hidden. He sighed.
`There I was at fault,' he said. `I was lulled by the words of Saruman the Wise; but I should have sought for the truth sooner, and our peril would now be less.'
`We were all at fault,' said Elrond, `and but for your vigilance the Darkness, maybe, would already be upon us. But say on!'
`From the first my heart misgave me, against all reason that I knew,' said Gandalf

from FotR: The Council of Elrond.

So Gandalf says that he allowed the words of Saruman to lull him into a false sense of security. this being so, your view of Gandalf not wanting to see Bilbo's ring as the One seems to have some basis. How else could one of the wisest in all Arda have been duped?

Valdarmyr · Feb 22, 2003

Thanks for including that quote, Gothmog. Glad I found this thread--I was wondering about this same thing; I started reading TTT where the movie left off, finished ROTK

and am just a few chapters into FOTR. It was 12 years, wasn't it, from the time of Bilbo's party 'till Gandalf told Frodo about the power the Ring truly held. That is a long time. Perhaps after Saruman quelled his fears, Gandalf thought, "No, it couldn't possibly be the Ring of Power."

Then again...

Originally posted by Gothmog
How else could one of the wisest in all Arda have been duped?

Didn't Saruman say, "Your love of the Halflings' leaf has clearly slowed your mind."

Huan · Feb 22, 2003

No I think its 17 years. Bilbo's farewell feast is in III 3001 but Gandalf doesn't read the scrolls of Isildur untill 3017 and manages to tell Frodo in early 3018.

The two things things I have a problem with are that

1. Gandalf only suspects Bilbo's ring to be The One in 3001 bearing in mind that he's known of it since 2941.

2. Gandalf should have known the fire test to see if it was the One Ring and thus found out as soon as he had any suspicions ie back in 3001.

Sorry, I may be repeating myself

Gothmog · Feb 22, 2003

Huan, I think that you will find that even Gandalf is in agreement with you. Certainly about your second point.

No doubt bacause of the limited number of Istari he allowed Saruman to concentrate on the Lore of the Rings of Power while he worked in other areas. It was not until it was almost too late that he realised his mistake and that he should have made some study of the Ring. At least to have learned enough to know of any tests that could reveal a ring to be the One.

lotrobsession4 · Feb 22, 2003

Gandalf must feel pretty bad now knowing that he could've done something earlier. But otherwise we wouldn't have had a story so good thing he trusted Saruman and didn't discover it was the One Ring til later!!

Gothmog · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by lotrobsession4
Gandalf must feel pretty bad now knowing that he could've done something earlier. But otherwise we wouldn't have had a story so good thing he trusted Saruman and didn't discover it was the One Ring til later!!

This is true:

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Ea, and evil yet good to have been.

Manwe speaking after the flight of the Noldor from Vailinor.
The Silmarillion: chapter 11: Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Vailnor.

Lady_of_Gondor · Feb 22, 2003

I think that for Gandalf, he didn't feel there was need to look into the lore of the rings. He, of course, knew that they weren't all accounted for. But like you all say, he trusted Sauraman with this work. If I were Gandalf, I think I would have made the same crucial mistake. He belived Sauraman to be the wisest of his council and even his friend. To mistrust him wouldn't have been in his nature. So, it only makes sense, (and allows for the crucial conflict of the story) that he didn't look into the lore of the rings in more detail.

Goldberry · Feb 22, 2003

Also, Gandalf seemed to be very hard at work with other things, so it is not like he had lots of time on his hands to go investigating the one ring. Since he thought Saruman had all the information already, and Saruman said the ring had washed out to sea, I can understand why he would not choose to spend his valuable time trying to research it more.

I thought this "mistake" was well placed in the books, to show that even the wisest are not perfect, and they do not always make the best choices, even when they stay as devoted to their task as Gandalf did.

Confusticated · Feb 22, 2003

Gandalf is wise and might have considered that his fellow Wizard could be currupted, just as other Maiar had been, or at least have been open to that Saruman was perhaps mistaken.

Gandalf also knew he was sent for something big, he knew about Sauron taking shape again, and he also had an uneasily feeling about the magic ring from day one.

Huan · Feb 22, 2003

Nom, also the fact that Gandalf did not reveal to Saruman his info about Bilbo's ring and his own suspicions would support what you've just said as it implies that he doesn't trust Saruman completely. He seems to have thought it best to keep what he knows under wraps

Valdarmyr · Feb 22, 2003

Echoing what's been said, Gandalf had suspicions, though he had yet to perform the last test of putting the Ring in the fire. He told Frodo that the night Bilbo left the Shire, "I knew at last that something dark and deadly was at work. And I have spent most of the years since then in finding out the truth of it." During Gandalf's periodic returns to the Shire in the ensuing years, he "seemed chiefly interested in small news about Frodo's health and doings." Gandalf also told Frodo he believed that up until that point, the Dark Power "has entirely overlooked the existence of hobbits."

He was doing research on whether it might have been the Ring of Power, but my guess is that he wasn't overly concerned, a) because Frodo wasn't being overtaken by the Ring's power, which would probably lead the Nine to the Shire, and b) Gandalf believed the Ring, whichever Ring it would turn out to be, was further protected because Sauron didn't know about the hobbits.

dgoof911 · Feb 22, 2003

Personally, and dob't be to mad, but i think that Tolkien needed to write a good story about something. I doubt that the fact that Gandalf should have looked into the ring more deeply ever really crossed Tolkien's mind. I'm sure he just wanted to write a good story (which he did). Besides, it would be no fun for nothing to happen, becuase of couse this forum wouldn't be here if Gandalf wasn't lazy about the Ring.

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