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Animal life in ME

Firawyn

The Captain
Joined
Mar 18, 2003
Messages
2,374
Alright, I was thinking the other day about the types of people, and other creatures that roam Middle Earth, and it occurred to me that I can't recall too many specific mentions of basic animal life.

Like we've got those "Crebain" (sp?) from Dunland...basically ME edition of Crows...

Oliphaunts...our Elephants, or near enough to them.

Fish...we know they have fish because Gollum likes to eat them...

Dogs...Farmer Maggot has dogs.


I'm having a hard time recalling any other book mentioned non-fantastical animal life in Middle Earth...I'm seeing a pretty big gap in Tolkien lore...

Come now you loremasters...help me out here!! :)
 
Seeing Middle-Earth is our own Earth, far in the past, I would assume the animal life is much the same. There are plenty of animals that appear in Tolkien's stories, I would say: foxes, wolves, thrushes, crows, ravens, eagles, octopi, giant turtles, spiders, deer, geese, Farmer Maggot's dogs, to name a few. Wildlife always seemed an important part of Tolkien's worlds, along with nature. Perhaps emphasized a bit more in "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil", but still there, all the same.
 
There are Neeker Breekers. . .Neeker Beekers? Necker. . . I'm not bothering to look that one up. Nasty relatives of crickets.

Radaghast needed someone to befriend.

Still, there is really no reason to mention all the animals. It would take up too much time devoted to stories. I mean, if you read a history book about America, they don't bother listing every indiginous species. For that you'd want a Natural History or science book, and Tolkien wasn't writing one of those. He only would mention the animals essential to developing the stories.

Though I won't let you forget that there were Cats mentioned at one point.

Rabbits too. . .
 
There's quite a bit of animal life popping up here and there throughout Tolkien's works. And there always seems to be a certain 'otherness' to the creatures that sets them apart from their real-world counterparts.

You see this in his earlier work, especially. Just in "The Hobbit," you've got enormous, talking spiders in Mirkwood, wise old ravens on the Lonely Mountain, Beorn's menagerie of trained animals, the eagles...

It seems like he phased some of the more anthropomorphic stuff as his Middle-Earth writings progressed, but Tolkien's animals all had a certain wild intelligence to them. There's a great respect there between the author and his imagined wildlife.
 
There's quite a bit of animal life popping up here and there throughout Tolkien's works. And there always seems to be a certain 'otherness' to the creatures that sets them apart from their real-world counterparts.

You see this in his earlier work, especially. Just in "The Hobbit," you've got enormous, talking spiders in Mirkwood, wise old ravens on the Lonely Mountain, Beorn's menagerie of trained animals, the eagles...

It seems like he phased some of the more anthropomorphic stuff as his Middle-Earth writings progressed, but Tolkien's animals all had a certain wild intelligence to them. There's a great respect there between the author and his imagined wildlife.

I believe Tolkien's animals were only meant to be "intelligent" in the hobbit, in the LoTR books, they have the typical sense of an animal in the real world
 
The animals of Middle-earth are basically the same as our own, with a few anthropomorphized instances, which seem to contain intelligence.

But it would be great to have a beastiary of some sort to categorize them.

Maybe this is a project I can begin, if I can get the Orcs/Goblins I am working on finished.

Because aside from the regular fauna of Middle-earth, there is a wealth of fantastic or unique fauna that would bear more than a passing interest.

MRB


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!
 
The Orc/Goblin project is a project to create a taxonomy or exploration of the clade inhabited by the creatures created by Morgoth and Sauron for their service.

This basically includes Orcs/Goblins (which are really the same thing), Trolls, Balrogs, Wights, Various Undead, Werewolves (which were really just wolves with anthropomorphic qualities - it seems only Sauron, and possibly other Maia like Thurwingethil were able to actually shape-shift), and the mysterious Boldoeg "Orcs" that Tolkien mentioned a few times).

The project sets out to not only describe basic anatomy, but also differences that could have evolved due to the environments in which they lived (such as the Northern Orcs/Goblins probably having a thicker layer of body fat than the Orcs/Goblins that existed in the South, such as the region's around Mordor, or when they still inhabited the White Mountains).

But overall, Orcs/Goblins seem to be localized to just the Ered Mithrim, Hithaeglir, and the lands of Mordor (at least for most of the Third Age), which begs the question:

How did they support themselves?

During the Second Age, they would have had more run of Eriador in the north and of the White Mountains and lands around Gondor to the south, but there still remains the question of how they supported themselves, and what kept them from wholly overrunning Middle-earth during the Second Age.

I have some concept art done, to use to create 3D models and miniatures (of various sizes; some for simple display, others for gaming).

But overall this is a part of a project to create a complete virtual world of Middle-earth. It would not be for use in games, like many other such virtual worlds, but rather as a project in creating stable ecosystems that are wholly artificial.

Thus... Eventually I am going to need to deal with the flora and fauna of Middle-earth as well:

What animals lived where, and what proportion of them had any sort of native anthropomorphic intelligence?


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!
 
Matthew Bailey01 wrote: "This basically includes Orcs/Goblins (which are really the same thing),...'

Huzzah! I agree!

And as this is often enough a rather convoluted matter on the web, I took up my own "orc/goblin" project a while ago, which is why I asked. My findings did not alter my general conclusion (that they are to be regarded as exactly the same thing within the world of Middle-earth), but I was surprised about the dating of things...

... which very briefly here, only means I was surprised that (in my opinion) Tolkien didn't really seem to have fully made up his mind about this until the 1960s (The Hobbit third edition, Tolkien's notes for translators regarding his nomenclature, and a late note on the spelling of Orc/Ork published in Morgoth's Ring)...

... which means after The Lord of the Rings. Thus JRRT seems to have "removed" any passage from The Lord of the Rings (published 1954, 1955) which would not easily fit his ultimate idea published in the 1960s... before he landed on that ultimate idea!

Erm, somehow. Unless I've lost my mind or made a mistake in my research. But yet Tolkien did not edit or revise two passages in The Hobbit which, although can be fitted to the ultimate explanation admittedly, often enough appear to suggest to readers that orcs and goblins are different in some way* (despite Orcrist "goblin-cleaver"). And this is the book in which JRRT finally published his ultimate explanation, in the revised note before the story starts.

Anyway as I say, I agree :D

__________
*one of these "problematic" passages was added to the second edition of The Hobbit, published in 1951
 
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The definitive settlement of the argument is Uglúk's head on a stake where the Rohirrim have burnt the Uruk-hai.

The Uruk-hai are the pinnacle of Orcdom.

Yet here, we find Uglúk described as a "goblin" the two are the same thing, only the word "goblin" is derived from English Victorian Faery Tradition.

MRB


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!
 
Matthew Bailey101 wrote: "The definitive settlement of the argument is Uglúk's head on a stake where the Rohirrim have burnt the Uruk-hai. The Uruk-hai are the pinnacle of Orcdom. Yet here, we find Uglúk described as a "goblin" the two are the same thing, only the word "goblin" is derived from English Victorian Faery Tradition."

Yes that's a notable goblin reference, and earlier in the published tale some of the Uruk-hai are described as "goblin-soldiers" as well.

Sometime between 1940 and late 1941 (source: Hammond and Scull's Reader's Guide to The lord of the Rings) Tolkien appears to have first written ("first" written at this time anyway, as the following is a revision of earlier wording, in which evil and larger than usual goblins are refered to as "real orcs"): "There are goblins: very many of them," he said. "Evil they look and large: veritable Orcs" the last part revised to read: "... he said: "Evil they look and large: black Orcs."

Which is not the final text of course (and if I recall correctly Christopher Tolkien does not note when the final revision was made), but here it looks like Tolkien imagined a seeming distinction between a goblin and an orc (as Christopher Tolkien himself notes), at least at some point or points in time, illustrated in the early text describing the goblins in Moria.

JRRT appears to have written the chapters with the Uruk-hai "goblin references" (the goblin head description you noted, plus the reference to the goblin-soldiers) at the end of 1941 and early 1942 (Hammond and Scull), so not that relatively long afterwards.

That said, in 1944 Tolkien wrote the following, adding it to the revised second edition of The Hobbit: "A bit low for goblins, at least for the big ones", thought Bilbo, not knowing that even the big ones, the orcs of the mountains, [are used to that sort of thing] > go along at great speed stooping low with their hands almost on the floor." And this was included in Allen and Unwin's page proofs dated to 1950, returned to Tolkien for proofing (The History of the Hobbit, the 1947 Hobbit, John Rateliff)

Also, when Tolkien got around to writing the Appendices, he first wrote (Appendix on Languages): "The orcs and goblins had languages of their own..." and a bit later "... and still less to the Gnomes of popular fancy in which they have been confused with Dwarves and goblins, and other small creatures of the earth."

Of course these two passages did not survive into the final version of Appendix F, but whenever the reader encounters "orcs and goblins" confusion can arise, despite the reference to large orcs as goblins, including the Uruk-hai. The already noted addition of the word "orc" in The Hobbit survives into the third edition however, also revised by Tolkien himself, in the same edition where he finally adds that the word "goblin" is (usually, in that book) used to translate the Westron word orc...

... again, which idea (translation) can explain the two orc references remaining in The Hobbit (two references which seem to often enough get raised by those who say there is a distinction). In other words, in addition to other evidence like the passage you noted, in my opinion the relatively late note allows the reader to imagine that Westron orc is simply the underlying word in every instance where the reader encounters "goblin" (or in theory other orc-words arguably translated to English, like Sindarin orch for example, given the context of a given passage).

Thus the reader can imagine (in my opinion), that a "less translated, less English" version of the added Hobbit passage could read: "A bit low for orcs, at least for the big ones", thought Bilbo, not knowing that even the big ones, the orcs of the mountains, go along at great speed stooping low with their hands almost on the floor."

And all that said, another opinion I encounter sometimes is that there is a distinction in "usage" here, even from some who agree that orcs and goblins are the same thing. Tom Shippey even argues this: that "goblin" is Hobbit usage, or common usage, while other folk used orc...

... this too I must disagree with :)

In any case Mr. Shippey cites an incorrect number of references to "goblin" for his argument (I counted more than he mentioned, anyway). Also he seems to exclude The Hobbit itself in his theory. I can understand why he might do the latter, if so, but Tolkien's ultimate idea, as I see it anyway, explains the matter with respect to everything he published.

Sorry to ramble. I realize you didn't say otherwise about any of this, but it's a matter I sometimes ramble about!
 
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