Another day, another mistake

[Ricardo]

@Ent please notice I am not using the B word (but I was tempted).

I got a VR headset and decided to rewatch the LOTR trilogy in a cinema type big screen (yes, I criticize the plot all the time but I do enjoy the visuals).

The thing is, I can see details and never saw before, even watching them multiple times.

So here we go, in the council of Elrond scene, when Frodo says he will carry the ring, the camera shows, for a moment, two men looking confused.

Now, they obviously were not dwarves (although some PJ's dwarves don't look like dwarves either, cough cough Thorin, Fili and Kili), not men, the only men present were Aragorn and Boromir, so they had to be elves.

You can presume they could be Galdor and Erestor (if Peter Jackson even knew they existed) but here is the thing.

they had beards.

Peter Jackson, repeat with me, "Elves don't normally have beards, with very few exceptions and those are exceptionally old elves".

Second, they had grey hair in their beards, very common in middle age men, NOT ELVES. Peter, what part of being immortal and aging very, very slowly you didn't understand? Even when they do age, they don't change physically, just spiritually and mentally.

I always was bothered by Elrond and Galadriel looking too old, but this is beyond that.

Not a big deal, but it seems when there was 2 choices PJ would only pick the wrong one.

Incidentally, Aragorn and Boromir should not have beards either, as per Tolkien's essays published in NOME. To be fair, NOME was published way after the films were made, so this is just an observation, not a criticism.

 

[Elthir]

Hmmm - I just assumed Jackson
tossed other Men into the scene

Then again. . . I might have seen a
verry different film in the first place

 

[Ricardo]

If he did that it's even worse. In the first place they didn't even need to be there, they add nothing to the plot. In the book, Glorfindel, Erestor and Galdor provide some feedback but not in the movie.

 

[Elthir]

I'd say, if indeed arguably needless characters here in the first place, better they be Men than Elves.

"Mannish set dressing"?

Of possible interest, someone on reddit claimed that the following majestic creature can be seen briefly at the Prancy Pony, and I assume this person is referring to being seen in Peter Jackson's films.

If so, I'm okay with it.

🐾

Edit: some stuff about beards:

Tolkien once wrote (c. 1968, so relatively late): "Elves did not have beards until their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father was exceptional, being only early in his second." Okay but 1972-3 Tolkien also wrote: "None of the Eldar had any beards and this was a general racial characteristic of all Elves in my world."

And here Carl Hostetter notes (Beards, The Nature of Middle-Earth) - well, I'm paraphrasing here -
"But whatabout the earlier but still "late" text about this third cycle of life thing? And in any case, whataboutyouknowwho at the Grey Havens!

Círdan

 

[Ricardo]

I'd say, if indeed arguably needless characters here in the first place, better they be Men than Elves.

I would love to hear Peter Jackson explaining why they are there, who they are and where they came from.

Rivendell wasn't the prancy pony.

 

[Elthir]

Rivendell wasn't the prancy pony.

Indeed it wasn't - that part of my post was for, as I say, of "possible interest" > meaning of possible interest to "the cat in all [or at least in some] of us"!

And of course, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek too, as, why indeed would I not be okay with a cat in the Prancy Pony!

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I'll just say that, if a misplaced beard here or there was my only criticism, I'd be a happy man.

Now, where did my beard go? 🤔

Edit: Ah, there it is!

Always sneaking off with my stuff. 😡

 

[Ricardo]

Indeed it wasn't - that part of my post was for, as I say, of "possible interest" > meaning of possible interest to "the cat in all [or at least in some] of us"!

And of course, it was a bit tongue-in-cheek too, as, why indeed would I not be okay with a cat in the Prancy Pony!

oh I wasn't referring to your post. Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant it as an example of a place where people come and go freely. Not Rivendell.

 

[Eljorahir]

"The hall of Elrond's house was filled with folk: Elves for the most part, though there were a few guests of other sorts."

I think it's true that Aragorn and Boromir are the only men specifically named at the council. However, the bearded men in the scene could simply be unnamed men in attendance (some of the "guests of other sorts" mentioned in the book).

The Ring is primarily an affair of concern to Men at this point in history. It does seem kind of wrong to have Men under-represented at the Council.

The council scene starts at 1:32:30 in the commentary video. I was hoping the members present at the council would be mentioned but nope. Anyway, the comments about creating the sequence, I think, are still interesting to listen to.

 

[Elthir]

Always sneaking off with my stuff. 😡

With cats it's all about perspective. In other words, you have no stuff

sorry 'bout that

 

[Ricardo]

"The hall of Elrond's house was filled with folk: Elves for the most part, though there were a few guests of other sorts."

I think it's true that Aragorn and Boromir are the only men specifically named at the council. However, the bearded men in the scene could simply be unnamed men in attendance (some of the "guests of other sorts" mentioned in the book).

The Ring is primarily an affair of concern to Men at this point in history. It does seem kind of wrong to have Men under-represented at the Council.
View attachment 45859

it is certainly possible, but unlikely. When Frodo was chosen to carry the ring and Sam said he wasn't going alone, Elrond told him that it wasn't easy o part him from Frodo even if Frodo was invited to a secret meeting and Sam wasn't.

The meeting was extremely serious and I don't think it was free entry. The book mentions the members of the fellowship that were there and a few elves like Glorfindel, Erestor and Galdor, nobody else.

 

[Alexander Scamilton]

it is certainly possible, but unlikely. When Frodo was chosen to carry the ring and Sam said he wasn't going alone, Elrond told him that it wasn't easy o part him from Frodo even if Frodo was invited to a secret meeting and Sam wasn't.

The meeting was extremely serious and I don't think it was free entry. The book mentions the members of the fellowship that were there and a few elves like Glorfindel, Erestor and Galdor, nobody else.

Guyssss lets be honest i think u r rlly overthinking this and i think they were just random men. Remember this is the movie, not the books so they may not align.

 

[Ricardo]

Guyssss lets be honest i think u r rlly overthinking this and i think they were just random men. Remember this is the movie, not the books so they may not align.

may not align?

I agree this is not important, I was just commenting on yet another point where Peter Jackson, unnecessarily departs from the book.

Compared to other issues this is really minor, it doesn't add to or subtract from the plot.

I just enjoy finding this mistakes, if I have to list everything that is truly wrong we would be here all week, just with the first movie.

 

[Squint-eyed Southerner]

I just enjoy finding this mistakes, if I have to list everything that is truly wrong we would be here all week,

Oh, believe me, there's a thread for that. 😁

Problems with Peter Jackson's Lord Of The Rings

His portrayal of Faramir in the Two Towers is completely at odds with what it is in the book. Faramir is supposed to be the opposite of Boromir - wise, humble, gentle - not some thug who kidnaps Frodo and Sam and tries to take the ring to Minas Tirith. Why did Jackson have the women and...

thetolkien.forum

 

[Elthir]

(. . .) random men. Remember this is the movie, not the books so they may not align.

But if we allow random men at the Council of Elrond. . . what's next? Random, uninvited, Half-unicorns giggling behind Galdor's Azaleas, that's what!

Not on my watch 🐾