Aragorn in Balin's Tomb

[JanitorofAngmar]

Let me know if this has been discussed already but, I noticed last night for the first time (maybe I'm a little slow here) that Aragorn says, to the effect of, "That spear would have skewered a wild boar" to Frodo after Frodo got poked by the troll.

Now, wait a minute, wasn't Aragorn un-freakin-concious at the time? When he crawls over to Frodo it sure as heck looked like he just woke up and the time between Frodo getting poked and the time it took everyone to finish off the Troll was a bit of time right?

What is Aragorn psychic or something?

Did I miss something?

JoA

 

[Proudfoots]

Maybe he just read the book?

 

[JanitorofAngmar]

Good one Foots! LMAO

 

[joxy]

Originally posted by JanitorofAngmar
What is Aragorn psychic or something?
Did I miss something?

Don't think you missed anything: I wondered why A went unconscious also.
That's what comes of making careless, unnecessary changes- they lead to a chain reaction of things after that don't work.

 

[Niniel]

Now that you mention it, that is really weird. Maybe he woke up just before it happened.

 

[Talimon]

Now, wait a minute, wasn't Aragorn un-freakin-concious at the time? When he crawls over to Frodo it sure as heck looked like he just woke up and the time between Frodo getting poked and the time it took everyone to finish off the Troll was a bit of time right?

It's up to interpretation. He could have regained counciousness in time to see Frodo stabbed. Or he could just be making an assumption, based on the fact that he sees the spear stuck in Frodo. After all, he himself was holding the spear just a few minutes before.

 

[Ascamaciliel]

and i think someone else originally said that line in the book, but I could be mistaken

 

[aragil]

I think you are mistaken- that was a Strider line all the way: Book, Movie, Broadway Musical. It's nice to see this sort of consistency.

 

[JanitorofAngmar]

Tal,

You mentioned:

He could have regained counciousness in time to see Frodo stabbed

Well then why didn't he get up off his lazy butt and help kill the cave troll? That makes it even worse!

 

[joxy]

Originally posted by Nóm
When someone is being attacked, they give it all they've got. That troll did not.
All of that Troll business seems unrealistic (even within the movie) to me.

Trolls are meant to be stupid of course, though this one seems to be even more stupid than its brother in H Potter, which helps to explain its poor strategy! All it's needed for is for Frodo to stab it in the foot which he's not allowed to do anyway, and for it to spear Frodo; the rest is pure PJ self-indulgence.
And of course it IS unrealistic, silly in the context; but at least, by the contrast, it makes the Balrog, which could have been as bad as Bakshi's, look pretty good.

 

[JanitorofAngmar]

Tal & Nom,

I disagree. The only thing that would have definitively lead Aragorn to that conclusion (other than watching it) would have been a gaping bloody hole in Frodo's chest instead of him just sitting there.

Aragorn is a seasoned warior and would have realized that:

a) the spear was near Frodo but it did NOT mean Frodo was stabbed by said spear. There was a whole bunch of old axes and such lying around the tomb.
B) he was just unconcious and therefore Frodo could have been punched, hit in the head, shot by an arrow from across the room, attacked by someone other than the troll (by the time Aragorn woke up the Troll was on the far side of the room in a heap on the floor), etc., etc.

As a seasoned warrior he would have known the above instinctively without thinking about it and would never have jumped to a possible erroneous conclusion as he did UNLESS he saw it himself.

Therefore Aragorn is either psychic, a lazy buffoon, or PJ make a boo-boo!

 

[BelDain]

Originally posted by aragil
I think you are mistaken- that was a Strider line all the way: Book, Movie, Broadway Musical. It's nice to see this sort of consistency.

There's a Broadway Musical!?!?

 

[aragil]

I think Rogers and Hammerstein did it. It's not quite as good as Les Mis, but it's better than Cats:

Frodo: I'm all right, just get me off the floor.
Strider: You're alive? That spear would have skewered a wild boar!
Gandalf: There's more to this Hobbit than meets the eyes.
Gimli: A mithril shirt? He's full of surprises.

 

[Talimon]

As a seasoned warrior he would have known the above instinctively without thinking about it and would never have jumped to a possible erroneous conclusion as he did UNLESS he saw it himself.

You are assuming what, to me, does not make common sense to assume. Assuming he woke up after Frodo was on the floor (which he must have), he'd have seen the spear lying in front of Frodo, the same spear that the troll had taken from him. To me it makes sense then to assume he was stabbed by the troll with said spear. Also, if you look at him after regaining conciousness, he's crawling, hardly in fighting condition. Considering that the cave troll was somewhere else entirely in the room (having been attacked by M & P), the truth is that at this point it would make more sense for Aragorn to be tending Frodo (him being the ring-bearer, after all). However, since we see him only crawling up to Frodo after the Cave Troll is killed, it is apparent that he wasn't in any condition to fight it, in either case.

Not to sound harsh, but this is the kind nit-picking that truly amazes me. Even were there legit inconsistencies here (which in my opinion there aren't), what's the point?

And of course it IS unrealistic, silly in the context;

Anyone choosing to make any sort of comment relating to "realism" on a Tolkien forum needs to go read the tale of Beren and Luthien in the Silmarillion. Enough said.

 

[PRH]

Originally posted by Talimon
Anyone choosing to make any sort of comment relating to "realism" on a Tolkien forum needs to go read the tale of Beren and Luthien in the Silmarillion. Enough said.

The rules are out the window -- ANYTHING GOES!!!

 

[aragil]

Originally posted by Nóm
Some would say that if you like, or even if you love something, that does not mean you have to be blind to the faults, but rather just look past them in acceptance.

And I would say that most of the comments above go beyond pointing out faults and fall more into the hyperbolic dislike of all things PJ category. Witness such criticisms as:

Originally posted by Joxy
That's what comes of making careless, unnecessary changes- they lead to a chain reaction of things after that don't work.

Originally posted by JanitorofAngmar
Therefore Aragorn is either psychic, a lazy buffoon, or PJ make a boo-boo!

Originally posted by Nevele11
and i think someone else originally said that line in the book, but I could be mistaken

That third quote was just wrong (which Nevele11 graciously admitted was possible), while the other two seemed to just be exaggerations in order to make the film look bad. This is not accepting the faults of a loved item, but rather trying to magnify those faults in an attempt to lessen the item itself. All IMO, of course.

 

[Talimon]

Does it amaze you that someone would notice inconsistencies, or does it only amaze you that people would discuss them?

Partially both. Many of these "inconsistecies" are just part of the films pacing. Many do nothing to hurt the film. But those who by some off-hand chance weren't intentional are far from being severe enough to use as a basis for criticism. It's not that bad these days, but in the months following release there were arguements regarding details that in my opinion are slightly petty. To use the subject of this thread, this is something I doubt anyone would ever notice unless they were out there looking for it. If folks enjoy looking for little bits like this then that's fine, I guess, but I don't think it's very fair to call them inconsistencies. The point is to let the film take you somewhere, and go with it. If you are fighting the film the whole way through and not wanting to let it tell it's tale then obviously you'll come across bits that don't make sense. But the same can be said about anything, Tolkien included.

 

[joxy]

Originally posted by Talimon
If you are fighting the film the whole way through and not wanting to let it tell it's tale then obviously you'll come across bits that don't make sense.

The problems arise when the film suddenly throws a punch at the viewer, and hits itself on the way back! Those are the points we've described before as the film being inconsistent within itself. A new example from EE that someone else has presented here: there is a wonderful atmosphere as the elves depart, and immediately Sam is made to shatter it.

 

[Lossengondiel]

hey, when you are as cute as Strider you can have psychic moments like that =)

 

[Lossengondiel]

you're right...cute people, like Strider =), are always allowed to do whatever they want however they want.


~~~Strider 4 ever