Aragorn's Weapon

[aragil]

I believe that I agree with Grond, HLGStrider, Harad, and Goroshimura on this. Could a thread possibly end in agreement? I hope not, or my reputation on U vs U-h shall be forever ruined!

 

[Snaga]

Well we can't have that can we?

I DISAGREE. you are all WRONG WRONG WRONG.

That's better. Now what were we talking about?

 

[Harad]

VoK,

I disagree that you disagree. As its 2:54 a.m. in your locality, you must be hallucinating. Therefore when you say you disagree...

 

[HLGStrider]

Fiddler on the Roof

You know he's right...
You know he's right too...
(Interupting person) They can't both be right.
You know, You're right too...

 

[elvenbladesmith]

from a rangers view, why carry a broken sword?

in the book aragorn carries narsil broken in the scabbard during his life as a ranger. a rangers job is to protect the borders, and to relay info on enemy movements, right? hes basically a scout. he knew he would probably see some minor combat, but all he has is a broken sword? sounds very unpractical to me.

 

[Hammersmith]

Re: from a rangers view, why carry a broken sword?

I think that the sword was primarily a reminder for him. While the movie does go over the top a bit with the weapons handover scene outside Edoras, it would be fair to assume that he does have other weapons (back this up, someone smart?) or would be resourceful enough to find some at short notice. Besides this, a broken sword can be very dangerous in skilled hands, as Sauron found to his peril

 

[HLGStrider]

Re: from a rangers view, why carry a broken sword?

There used to be a REALLY good thread about this. I'll see if I can get a link.

I think it was decided that Aragorn would have other weapons and also that carrying the Shards of Narsil was not a normal thing for him. It was sort of his ID that he took along in case he ran into Frodo on that mission.

Let me grab the thread.

 

[HLGStrider]

Re: from a rangers view, why carry a broken sword?

http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?t=2794&highlight=Aragorn%27s+Weapon

As promised.

If you have more questions, I would like to merge this thread with the old Aragorn's Weapon thread as it is a good thread and could use some more discussion.

 

[Barliman Butterbur]

Re: from a rangers view, why carry a broken sword?

in the book aragorn carries narsil broken in the scabbard during his life as a ranger. a rangers job is to protect the borders, and to relay info on enemy movements, right? hes basically a scout. he knew he would probably see some minor combat, but all he has is a broken sword? sounds very unpractical to me.

Very unpractical indeed from that standpoint. But he is the future King Of Men, constantly aware of it, and so he carries the Shards of Narsil possibly as a profound reminder of who he is now and who he is to become. When the time is ripe, and the prophesy begins coming true, the sword is reforged at the appropriate moment and sees battle once again.

Barley

 

[Alatar]

As was said earlir, when he was in Rohan and Gondor...
Man;So, your from the north?
Aragorn: Yup.
Man; Heard of those rangers?
Aragorn; Nup.
Man; Well lets see your sowrd, ummm... why is it broken?
Aragorn;Acident.
Man; So your from the North, have a broken sword, and your not a ranger?
Aragorn; Well i am.
Man; Wow you must be isildurs heir!

It would have ruined his cover. I think that he would use a other sword, a spear, and a bow, likethe rangers in the RotK. He just took that as he wanted proof of his identiny.

 

[HLGStrider]

He probably could have shown up in Rohan and offered his service without much to show for weapons and received a sword. I think he probably was armed by whatever crown he was serving and would have at least one back up weapon on his own. He probably kept whatever weapon he was using when he through down the Corsairs. He walked away from the scene and I don't see him turning in his gear before leaving. So, I imagine he at least kept that.


I also imagine he went through many swords in his lifetime.

Hunter gear at the time would have included a knife, to be used more as a tool than a weapon, but if he hunted, which he said he did, he would need one (or else he would be stuck with skinning rabbits with a very sharp rock or somewhat inconvenient sword hilt).

 

[elvenbladesmith]

when i posted this question i had a specific battle in my mind, and that is weathertop. i think that jacksons version sounds much more appropriate, and is probably what would have taken place. but like it is stated before, i think tolkein meant it as symbolism.
hammersmith, you said that it would be fair to assume he had other weapons, did you mean that he had them at weathertop? cause he sure didnt show the wraiths that he did.
i just find it rediculous that he carried only a broken sword into the wilds, to escort the ring of power to rivendel, when he knew wraiths were on the lose! most likely he did carry other weapons during his years as a ranger, but on his most difficult task, to date, he decided to get all ceramonial? hardly sounds like a wood wise ranger to me!
practical ranger gear for aragorn would be a short bow, a bastard sword, a hunting knife, light leather armour, or a chain mail vest, cloak, high boots, pack, with a bedroll. sound familiar? pj aragron!

 

[HLGStrider]

Not Tolkien Aragorn, however. It is clearly stated he carried only Anduril and he doesn't get into armor until he reaches Theoden and is armed for Helm's Deep.

I think it would be very impractical for Aragorn to be openly armed in Bree. He is already distrusted. Any show of potential force, and he would be run out of the town on a rail. He cannot afford to maintain his presence by force. He cannot afford to be known openly as anything more than a "Ranger," which is not a position held in much esteme. It's sort of like a dark version of Robin Hood. Rangers aren't soldiers in the "armed forces" sense. They are soldiers in the "secret mission" sense. It would be like Zorro wearing his little rapier off duty. Like Bruce Wayne driving the Batmobile. Like Clark Kent gut slamming a rival reporter. I could go on.

Aragorn does not even carry Narsil's shards openly. If you read the chapter Strider, he only pulls back his cloak to reveal the sheeth when Sam "threatens" him.

The Rangers protect the Shire secretly.

I also am curious as to whether you think even Anduril reforged would have had any effect whatsoever on Mr. Witchking? All blades that pierce him perish, for one thing. For another, only certain blades have any power whatsoever over his "knit sinews." For a third, no mortal man can kill him.

All that put together makes fire a much more effective tool against them.

Also, had Aragorn really had to fight off the five Wraith's on Weathertop, he would have died. Only their own over confidence that the knife wound had finished the job caused their early departure and saved the group's lives.

 

[HLGStrider]

If Gondor, Boromir, has been a stalwart tower, we have played another part. Many evil things there are that your strong walls and bright swords do not stay. You know little of lands beyond your bounds. Peace and freedom do you say? The North would have known them little but for us. Fear would have destroyed them. But when dark things come from the houseless hills, or creep from sunless woods, they fly from us. What roads would any dare to tread, what safety would there be in quiet lands, or in the homes of simple men at night, if the Dunedain were asleep, or were all gone into the grave?
'And yet less thanks have we than you. Travellers scowl at us, and countrymen give us scornful names. "Strider" I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart, or lay his little town to ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly. Yet we would not have it otherwise. If simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so. That has been the task of my kindred, while the years have lengthened and the gras has grown.'


I just posted this in another thread, but I thought I'd post it here too because it has much to do with the true nature of Rangering. Do you really think Barliman would have had the guts to call someone armed the way the Aragorn you describe is, "Strider." Wouldn't it have been obvious that the Rangers were some elite, paramilitary force if they went around like that?

Now, errantry in Rohan and Gondor is another story. Also the actual battles they have AWAY from civilization would be another story. That's why I think Aragorn probably had another weapon on him, but very well hidden.

We know that he did have a horse of his own that he chose not to ride for whatever reason until it was brought to him by the gray company. It is logical to assume that he had his own war gear that was likewise left behind when he was in Bree.

I imagine he would often travel between Bree, Rivendell, and the hidden Ranger settlements, perhaps making the circuit several times a year along with other journies, further east or south as situation demanded or Gandalf requested. He probably had a different "guise" for each journey and would prepare accordingly. I doubt he had much time for prancing about Rivendell with his sweety, but I do imagine that when there he acted much more the noble-gentleman. With the other Rangers he was the battle hardened captain. On his own the savy guide and hunter. In Bree he was the mysterious stranger, not trusted, but not threatening enough that he wouldn't be allowed to sit in the common room and listen to the news, such as would interest him.

Now, I do find it slightly illogical that he would be, at the point of the Ring's discovery, so into his Bree disguise as to leave all weapons behind unless he were caught somehow in a very awkward position (ie he was supposed to meet with his second in command for resupply when all hell broke loose, ie he had recently lost his sword in a very tough poker game). I don't find it at all strange that he was armorless or that the other weapon was not APPARENT to his new found friends. I think Aragorn is stealthy enough to have a sword hidden under his pack.

 

[elvenbladesmith]

he coulda given his sword i nice coat of oil, and his it in a hallowed out tree, or possibly put it in his room?(or his bedroll) he had been there a few days ya know. i dont care what anyone says, i got wraiths on my tail, ill have a sword. even if id die fighting and the ring would be lost, id rather not die like a animal to slaughter, weaponless. maybe you guys didnt see the movie, you pary with the sword and attack the wraiths with a torch!
hlgstrider, you said he couldnt have been shown as more than a ranger. how would carrying ranger weapons with him hurt that rep? i think carrying the shards of narsil around, in a ranger clothes is gunna draw some attention, right? his ranger sword you say would show aggresion in bree? what about a scabbard with half a sword in it?(narsil shards) it would looks the same as long as it is in the sheath!
also yes i do think anduril would have done something to the wraiths. yes no man can kill the witchking, but aragorn really isnt a man hes a dunedian, a man lives to about 85, aragorn is that old, and hes barely middle aged. so i really dont think hes a man in the traditional sense. a hobbit, and a woman, of the race of MAN killed the witchking, so i think aragorn could. also hes wielding anduril, the sword that destroyed sauron!
who says aragorn isnt a match for 5 wraiths? i dont remember any mention of his fighting skill, or the wraiths for that matter. i always thought of the wraiths as blind zombielike creatures, i think they would be too distracted by the presence of the ring, for them all to be focused on aragorn.
theres a good question, are the wraiths blind? i always thought they were, the just felt the ring, almost smelled it, kinda like when the hobbits are hiding from the dark rider by the tree in the movie, hes smelling the ring. almost like how a bat finds insects, is how i pictured it.

 

[HLGStrider]

Dunedain=Man.
Man=Dunedain.

The first man to try and kill the Wraith King was a Dunedain. It didn't get him far.

id rather not die like a animal to slaughter, weaponless. maybe you guys didnt see the movie, you pary with the sword and attack the wraiths with a torch!

I did, actually, and I winced all the way through that scene. My first thought was "That wouldn't work. Your blade would disintigrate, they'd breathe black breath on you, and you'd pass out." My second was, "What the heck, it looks cool. Whatever."

i think carrying the shards of narsil around, in a ranger clothes is gunna draw some attention, right?

Obviously it didn't because the four Hobbits don't see the sword until he chooses to let them see it. I am guessing his cape covers it. I was alway curious as to whether he had the whole sword with him or just the upper half. If he had the upper half, we're dealing with a much smaller sheeth.

who says aragorn isnt a match for 5 wraiths? i dont remember any mention of his fighting skill, or the wraiths for that matter.

If you read the Appendix you'll find that five of them road down twenty Rangers at the Ford several days before Frodo made his crossing. If you notice in the battles, no one stands up to the Nazgul. Even in the movies, they simply swoop, and the army melts away beneath them. Only the non-man Gandalf (Maia) dares to challenge and only Eowyn (a WOMAN) and Merry (a HOBBIT) can make the strokes.

also hes wielding anduril, the sword that destroyed sauron!

At this point he actually isn't. He is weilding tree brands. Narsil only destroyed Sauron at the cost of Gil-Gilad, Anarion, and Elendil. It was a four way battle. Only Isildur managed to survive it, and he cut the finger off an already wounded beyond repair Sauron. It didnt' happen at all like in the movie prologue.

i always thought of the wraiths as blind zombielike creatures, i think they would be too distracted by the presence of the ring, for them all to be focused on aragorn.

Actually, they probably have better vision than we do in the dark. They can smell blood. They were keyed in on the ring which is why they didn't take the time to destroy Frodo, Sam, Pippin, Merry, and Aragorn. Besides, what threat is Aragorn?

i always thought they were, the just felt the ring, almost smelled it, kinda like when the hobbits are hiding from the dark rider by the tree in the movie, hes smelling the ring

In the books they never got quite that close. Only the noonday sun truly blinds them.

 

[Alatar]

I think that he was unarmed, and was goind to go to san ford and pick up his weapons, when he was in bree, he stayed there to long, as they did not know that the nazgul had talked to saruman, and they thought that the gap of rohaan was safe, so when aragorn is walking toward crikelhollow, wondering why the hobbits are not in rivendell by now, he hears Tom speak to them and, unarmed follows them.

 

[Valandil]

If you read the Appendix you'll find that five of them road down twenty Rangers at the Ford several days before Frodo made his crossing. If you notice in the battles, no one stands up to the Nazgul. Even in the movies, they simply swoop, and the army melts away beneath them. Only the non-man Gandalf (Maia) dares to challenge and only Eowyn (a WOMAN) and Merry (a HOBBIT) can make the strokes.

Elgee - is that in the Appendices? I don't know of anything that tells us how many rangers were driven off from Sarn Ford - but I could be wrong (EDIT: and note that Sarn Ford is a bit down the river from Buckleberry - where the Hobbits crossed - you might know that, but it sounds like you're talking about the same place). I didn't find it in the Appendices and can't take the time right now to check the UT account, but don't recall anything with precise numbers from there.

At this point he actually isn't. He is weilding tree brands. Narsil only destroyed Sauron at the cost of Gil-Gilad, Anarion, and Elendil. It was a four way battle. Only Isildur managed to survive it, and he cut the finger off an already wounded beyond repair Sauron. It didnt' happen at all like in the movie prologue.

Slight correction - Anarion had been dead for about a year by then - and I think it was more a five-on-one battle: Elendil was accompanied by his son Isildur and Gil-galad was accompanied by both Elrond and Cirdan, IIRC. (EDIT: and I visualize Elendil and Gil-galad rushing him together, while the others hung back to see how they might come to their aid - so maybe 'two-on-one' at that moment is more precise - and Sauron took them both down with him) So that was still a great cost - the acknowledged leader of Men of Middle-earth, and the acknowledged leader of Elves of Middle-earth.

I'm not certain about your earlier contention that a man would not have been ABLE to kill the Witch-King. I think Glorfindel, when he spoke the words he did (which ARE definitely in Appendix A) either had a glimpse of the future or a revelation in some other form (maybe even HE didn't understand the actual meaning - just that those words would fit W-K's end). When those words got around to W-K, he quite naturally extrapolated them into a feeling of invincibility - which was only shaken a thousand years later, moments before his destruction, when Eowyn turned the words on him and he realized there might be a 'loop-hole' that he had not anticipated.

 

[Valandil]

As to the sword, I'm pretty sure there's mention someplace about Aragorn returning to Rivendell for an 'errand' of some kind - just a few months before he meets the hobbits at Bree. Some (including 'he whose name may not be spoken') have speculated that he returned there to retrieve the broken sword of Elendil - maybe thinking it fitting that he should bear it then and reunite with the Ring the sword which cut it from Sauron's hand. Or perhaps a way to fortify himself in his encounter with the Ring - to have something reminiscent of his ancestor who struck the mortal blow with that very item.

It just seems 'fitting' that he should have that sword with him then. But I doubt he had carried it for the previous 67 years of wandering in the wild (nor do I think his ancestors down the line had carried it on their persons, either at times, and certainly not constantly - particularly not the Chieftains of the previous 1000 years). Tolkien's mention of this 'errand' drops us the hint that he didn't need to.

 

[Alatar]

That works OK, though i think he had other weapons that were in the same place as his horse.