Aragorn's Weapon

[HLGStrider]

Well, it is literature. If Robert Foster said he carried Narsil occasionally, I am sure it was to make sure people like Boromir didn't pick it up and cut themselves with it when there was a movie being made... sorry about that... Movie comments and sarcasm on the book thread... aren't I terrible?

It might've been something about him having to carry it, as an heir. If the blade was lost, Aragorn was lost (Having lost his great heirloom and maybe some sort of claim to his inheiritance) if Aragorn was lost what was the point of the sword? There was no other heir. Aragorn and his sword were one... Now everyone sit cross legged and chant. We will all become one with our swords...

It is fairly ridiculous, but I think it might be worth considering. He had an emotional attachment to the broken old thing.

It is never said that he carried another blade, but we must assume he did periodically.

The sword wouldn't have been much use against Dark Riders, nor were the flaming brands really. Stealth was his best chance. He couldn't dare cause the attention using a sword (Something that was probably not often seen in that country) would draw in Bree. It was just a intimidation tool, I believe. Something to show while in the hilt if someone was bothering him.

He probably had something else on hand. The knife or bow theory is handy though Tolkien left that to our imagination.

He wasn't planning to use the branch on trolls... That is a silly argument.

You know, in the origenal draft, Strider was a hobbit named trotter.

I don't think he was expecting to do fighting in Bree. He probably expected the hobbits a couple of months before while it was still safe (Gandalf's letter? Remember. He didn't know abou t it, but Gandalf had probably told him that he expected the hobbits "soon".). Perhaps by the time he realized they weren't coming soon, he didn't dare leave the area for fear of missing them and so was unable to get a new weapon. Perhaps he didn't dare make contact with his Rangers, knowing stealth was his best weapon. Perhaps perhaps perhaps...

I think Aragorn was trapped in a uncomfortable corner while in Bree. Powerless and waiting for a group of hobbits who didn't know how to get some where on time.

 

[Ged]

My feeling is that Aragorn carried the main Shard of Narsil in honour of his past. This is connected with his noble realisation of the part he is about to play in the events that happen. He probably (almost certainly) has another sword. But the shard, being questionably but a foot or so long, he can carry also.

This is not to say that all the heirs of Isildur (before Aragorn) also carried the shard. I think Strider carried it because wisely he knew the portents of the times he lived in.

He knew already in the Inn at Bree the poem that Gandalf had left for Frodo:

"Seek for the sword that is broken!"

 

[Harad]

Even Highway Patrolmen in these civilized times range the concrete pathways with weapons, even if they dont plan on meeting Trolls everyday. Every day of Aragorn's existence was patrolling the wild, where he WAS the representative of Law, Justice, and the Anorian Way (except for the long weekends at Rivendell where he would nudgenudgewinkwink with his sweetie).

He didnt go to Bree on a holiday, expecting a business meeting with the representatives of the Hobbit Corporation. Perhaps swords wouldnt work against the Nazgul--but tell me again the heritage of the sword that Merry used to great effect against the same? What if the Nazgul enlisted an Orc or Troll to do their dirty work. Was that out of the question? Might a sword come in handy?

 

[Snaga]

We don't have much to base a theory on. Lets look at what we do have.

(1) Aragorn and the rangers have been guarding the borders of the shire of 17 years. Hardly an activity you would typically do unarmed, I'd suggest.
(2) The quote about dangers within a days march of Bree that would freeze the heart of a fat inn-keeper at Bree also suggests something not very nice, requiring the need to fight occasionally. ( I always thought that might be barrow-wights?)
(3) But, apart from his broken sword, which he tells Sam is not much use, he is unarmed. Why?
(4) He doesn't know that the Nazgul are around at the time he arrives in Bree to look for Mr Underhill I think. If he had, he might have been better prepared. If he thinks he is just trying to convince Mr Underhill to accept his help, knowing hobbits as he does, perhaps he think they will less frightened of an unarmed man?
(5) At Weathertop he finds staches of firewood left by the dunedain. Maybe they also have places they can leave weapons? (Fortunately for PJ, there are 4 swords left at the top of Weathertop!)
(6) The dunedain go to Fornost (Deadman's Dike), Gandalf tells Butterbur. Perhaps this is where they leave their weapons? The Grey Company come from the north to Rohan reasonably well kitted out, and well able to use their weapons. If that's where his weapons are, he wouldn't have time to head north to get them.

Just a theory, my only other one being that his full title was 'Stone Cold Strider' and he downed his enemies by bouncing off the ropes at immense speed and forearm smashing them... Perhaps not.

 

[Harad]

VoK says:

3) But, apart from his broken sword, which he tells Sam is not much use, he is unarmed. Why?
4) He doesn't know that the Nazgul are around at the time he arrives in Bree to look for Mr Underhill I think.If he had, he might have been better prepared. If he thinks he is just trying to convince Mr Underhill to accept his help, knowing hobbits as he does, perhaps he think they will less frightened of an unarmed man?

There is something to be said for the idea that, like the Longbranch Saloon in Dodge City, maybe you check your weapons at the door of the Prancing Pony. One question: Does a scabbard cover the whole length of a sword, or is it like a holster that the sword sticks thru. If the latter then everybody would know that Strider's scabbard did not hold a serious weapon. Again, I see no evidence for the two scabbard theory, and to carry another "real" sword would require another scabbard.

Is is correct that Aragorn did not know that the Nine were abroad before Bree? Certainly he knew directly before Bree since he tells Frodo: "I know what hunts you."

 

[Ged]

VoG said:
But, apart from his broken sword, which he tells Sam is not much use, he is unarmed. Why?

Why do you suppose that Strider was "unarmed" but for the broken sword? Is there a quote to support that? Would he likely be "unarmed"?

Edit later: Re-reading the relevant passage it says (in the passage at Bree) Aragorn drew out "his sword". But does this preclude his having other weapons about his body?

 

[aragil]

1) FotR, p.214 '"He (Strider) is one of the wandering folk--Rangers we call them. ... He disappears for a month, or a year, and then he pops up again. He was in and out pretty often last spring; but I haven't seen him about lately."'

2) FotR, p.223 '"But the explanation is simple: I was looking for a Hobbit called Frodo Baggins. I wanted to find him quickly. I had learned that he was carrying out of the Shire, well, a secret that concerned me and my friends."'

3) FotR, p.231 '" You may meet a friend of mine on the Road: a Man, lean, dark, tall, by some called Strider. He knows our business and will help you. ... Make sure that it is the real Strider. There are many strange men on the roads. His true name is Aragorn. ... Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king."'

4) FotR, p.233 '"I did not know," he answered. "But I am Aragorn, and those verses go with that name." He drew out his word, and they saw that the blade was indeed broken a foot below the hilt.'

5) FotR, p.234 '"I came west with him (Strider with Gandalf) in the spring. ... We last met on the first of May: at Sarn Ford down the Brandywine. He told me that his business with you had gone well, and that you would be starting for Rivendell in the last week of September. As I knew he was at your side, I went away on a journey of my own. And that has proved ill; for plainly some news reached him, and I was not at hand to help. ... When I returned, many days ago, I heard the ill news. The tidings had gone far and wide that Gandalf was missing and the horsemen had been seen. It was the Elven-folk of Gildor that told me this; and later they told me that you had left your home; but there was no news of your leaving Buckland. I have been watching the East road anxiously."'

6) FotR, p.291 '"Yes, I knew of them. Indeed I spoke of them once to you; for the Black Riders are the Ringwraiths, the Nine Servants of the Lord of the Rings. But I did not know that they had arisen again or I should have fled with you at once. I heard news of them only after I left you in June; but that story must wait. For the moment we have been saved from disaster, by Aragorn."'

7) FotR, pp.320-321 '"In the North after the war and the slaughter of the Gladden Fields the Men of Westernesse were diminished, and their city of Annuminas beside Lake Evendim fell into ruin; and the heirs of Valandil removed and dwelt at Fornost on the high North Downs, and that now too is desolate. Men call it Deadmen's Dike, and they fear to tread there."'

8) FotR, p.324 '"For the Sword that was Broken is the Sword of Elendil that broke beneath him when he fell. It has been treasured by his heirs when all other heirlooms were lost; for it was spoken of old among us that it whould be made again when the Ring, Isildur's Bane, was found."'

9) RotK, p.337 '"And many folk used to dwell away north, a hundred miles or more from here, at the far end of the Greenway: on the North Downs or by Lake Evendim." "Up away by Deadmen's Dike?" said Butterbur, looking even more dubious. "That's haunted land, they say. None but a robber would go there." "The Rangers go there," said Gandalf. "Deadmen's Dike, you say. So it has been called for long years; but its right name, Barliman, is Fornost Erain, Norbury of the Kings."'

10) RotK, p.401 'Arahael his son (Aranarth, 1st Ranger of the Dunedain's son) was fostered in Rivendell, and so were all the sons of the chieftains after him; and there also were kept the heirlooms of their house: the ring of Barahir, the shards of Narsil, the star of Elendil, and the sceptre of Annuminas'

11) RotK, pp.420-421 'But when Estel was only twenty years of age, it chanced that he returned to Rivendell after great deeds in the company of the sons of Elrond. ... That day therefore Elrond called him by his true name, and told him who he was and whose son; and he delivered to him the heirlooms of his house. "Here is the Ring of Barahir," he said, "the token of our kinship from afar; and here also are the shards of Narsil. With these you may yet do great deeds."'

Well, it appears that as I have been digging around and typing quotes, other members of the board have engaged in their usual habit of posting without waiting for me. How rude.
Anyway, to back up my earlier theory that Aragorn was carrying the sword because he took this to be an occasion of special significance, I have found the above quotes. A lot of this has been brought out already, but I'll be darned if I'm going to delete an entry and renumber!
First off, I don't think that we can get a 'logical' (Haradical) explanation for this. Logically, Aragorn was in a dangerous area, and should have had a weapon for the occasion.
From #8 above, Aragorn knows that the blade will be reforged when the ring is found. From #5 Aragorn knows that the ring has indeed been found, and it appears that he comes to Bree in September attempting to find it. He also thinks that Gandalf would be there, so he probably does not think that he will need to be kitted out for an adventure. From #5 and #6 we learn that Gandalf never relayed the message about the Nazgul to Aragorn. Aragorn returned to Bree in September expecting a cake-walk, and when Gildor's people informed him of the Wraiths he did not have enough time to go to Rivendell or Fornost. From #2 we know that Aragorn has indeed returned to Bree to look for Frodo, as he knows Frodo will be bearing the ring. From #1 we get corroboration with #5: Aragorn was on the outskirts of the Shire in May, learned that the Ring was discovered and soon would be coming to Rivendell, and then Aragorn leaves on 'business of his own'. From #11 we know that Aragorn fought with the sons of Elrond before he received the shards, and from #10 we know that the heirs of Elendil were in the habit of keeping the sword in Rivendell (in a PJ-esque shrine?- #8 says the treasured it). #3-#4 is suggestive that Aragorn shows the Hobbits the shard as a sort of identification, to get them to trust him.

So, what is my theory? Aragorn is indeed in the habit of carrying around other weapons. He would hardly be 'treasuring' Narsil by toting it around and possibly damaging it beyond reforging. He certainly used a different weapon with the sons of Elrond, prior to receiving Narsil. I'd assume that since his ancestors were in the habit of leaving the sword in Rivendell, they had another weapon of lesser lineage which Aragorn also used. However, Aragorn meets the Hobbits under special circumstances, and for all we know this could have been the only time that he carried the shards around (the sword was later reforged and so became useful, which explains why he later carried it). Anyway, here's the 'special circumstance': Aragorn hears from Gandalf that his hour has come- the ring has been found, the sword will be reforged, and now is his chance to claim the throne of Gondor (and Arwen). He is assured that Gandalf will be taking care of things, so he leaves the guardianship of the Shire and goes to Rivendell, to retrieve the shards and to meet with Elrond, the sons of Elrond, Arwen, Glorifindel, Bilbo, and whoever else will help him at this time. Perhaps he meditates on the matter, after all he has from May to September. In early September he returns to Bree with the Shards, expecting to meet Gandalf and the Hobbits. He learns the news from Gildor's folk, and realizes he hasn't the time to reach Fornost or Rivendell- he must watch the East Road to help the Hobbits (he now also knows that Gandalf is not with them). Once the Hobbits arrive, he uses the sword as identification- he only shows that it is broken once he knows that they've heard the verse. So that's my theory- not entirely logical, but it is drawn from events in the book. Apologies to HGLStrider and V of K, who seem to be veering towards the same theory, but this theory is mine. It is precious to me.

ps #7 & #9 were to be used to explain that the Rangers did have a home away from Rivendell- Fornost, but that point has already been brought up.

 

[Harad]

Originally posted by aragil

First off, I don't think that we can get a 'logical' (Haradical) explanation for this.

Meaning I shouldnt bother poking holes in it? Not likely.

think that he will need to be kitted out for an adventure.

Even getting to Bree was not a "cakewalk." Why would he suddenly let down his guard?

Aragorn shows the Hobbits the shard as a sort of identification, to get them to trust him.

Doesnt Aragorn say he was not aware of that identification scheme? But, hey! good luck, here's the sword-that-was-broken. In other words Gandalf knew he would (might?) be carrying it, but did NOT tell Aragorn: carry it so the hobbits can ID you.

Rivendell, to retrieve the shards and to meet with Elrond, the sons of Elrond, Arwen, Glorifindel, Bilbo, and whoever else will help him at this time.

No sale. Where was the Sword reforged? At Rivendell. No reason to take it from there on a journey.

, but this theory is mine.

Hail Ann Elk!

 

[Snaga]

Aragil, great post. Or as one might say: a late, great post! I agree entirely, and I admire your work rate in getting all the quotes lined up. But it is a sad truth that brilliant intuitive thinking wins over diligent scholarship every time. I got there first, the theory is mine. MINE I TELL YOU!!!! (Suddenly, a mist came before his eyes, and Aragil was no longer there, but a hideous orc creature pawing at him!!! NO! Get away from my theory!)


Ged: who's VoG? Is that Vincent of Gondor around again?

I think he was unarmed because there is no mention of a weapon being carried, and you'd expect it to be noted if he had one. I'm not ruling out a knife or somesuch that could be used as a weapon, but I doubt he had a large battle axe slung over his shoulder and JRRT forget to tell us!

 

[Ged]

VoK;
VoG was typo. Sorry.

I refer back to my earlier post. The heirs of Isildur did not routinely carry the Shard of Narsil, but Aragorn did. This was because he had a noble inkling (even a tolkienesque inkling) that he was going to become "The King".

But none of this precludes the fact that he might have had another sword on his person.

On the other hand it seems to have been suggested that maybe Aragorn didn't even carry the shards of Narsil - this I cannot understand.

 

[Eonwe]

The only thing I can find in UT is:

"The river was swirling dark and swift without halt and by day (sic). Then in haste he cast off all his armour and weapons, save a short sword at his belt,"

But alas, we are talking about Isildur, just before he jumped into Anduin with the Ring. Of course, he carried Narsil before this, "'Ohtar,' he said, 'I give this now into your keeping'; and he delivered to him the great sheath and the shards of Narsil, Elendil's sword."

 

[Harad]

On the other hand Harad seems to be arguing that he didn't even carry the shards of Narsil - this I cannot understand.

I throw myself on the mercy of the court. Did I ever say this?

(Mercy in THIS court?)

 

[Ged]

Harad,
I apologise, a very quick (but not quick enough!) edit has made your repost meaningless. You didn't suggest such a thing.

 

[Eonwe]

I don't go for the identification thing, nor the "its a better story" routine. I think he carried the 1 foot shard of Narsil as a weapon (full circle)...

 

[Eonwe]

I could swear I remember a writeup of Aragorn leaving his fellow soldiers of Gondor, and him disappearing as Thorongil. Perhaps that writeup contains some info, but I can't find it.

 

[aragil]

V of K- ha-ha, beat you to it. You see, my lengthy post above was just refining my argument from http://thetolkien.forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=53874#post53874.
So you see, the precious is mine. Precious, precious, precious! My precious! O my precious! Precioooooouus!

 

[aragil]

Eonwe- I think that quotes 8 & 10 from my post are pretty well against Aragorn using the shards as a weapon. The chieftains treasured it and kept it in Rivendell. If they had used it as a weapon they would have increased the chance of damaging it further or of being slain (like Arathorn and Arador) and having the enemy get the weapon. Aragorn himself gives the best indication that he doesn't use it as a weapon-
FotR, p. 233 '"Not much use, is it Sam?"
This seems to indicate that the shards are not much use as a weapon. Why carry it at all in this instance?
FotR, p. 233 '"But the time is near when it shall be forged anew."
Which has been my argument.

As for the identification thing- I'm not sure that anybody is going for it. I mentioned it on the first page of this thread, but that is not what my statement in my above post implied. What I was saying is that Aragorn only shows the Hobbits that his sword is broken once he knows that the Hobbits are familiar with the verse. Once he knows that the Hobbits know the verse, he supports his claim that he is the real Strider by showing them the broken sword. He does not show them that the sword is broken when he reveals that he is armed. I do not think that Aragorn brought Narsil to Bree as a form of ID, but I do think that he showed the Hobbits (and us) that his sword was broken so that the Hobbits would know he was the real Strider.

 

[Eonwe]

well I agree its "not much use", however why would Elrond give it to Aragorn at age 20, and not the other chieftains? Why would Isildur carry it as in the quote I gave above? It must have been worth some protection if it could cut the finger of Sauron off...

My only theory is the hidden "short sword" that Isildur had in his belt... but I can't find any other passage that shows Aragorn with this. I imagine him taking a sword out of the armory of Rohan, or from Gondor when he was there as Thorongil.

I agree that the sword that was broken could be linked to the poem about Aragorn, however the hobbits are convinced simply by him announcing himself as Strider and that Gandalf tells them to seek out Strider in his letter he leaves with Butterbur. I think perhaps the sword helps id him, but it wasn't what originally convinced them?

I agree with you that (and I hope I get what you are saying correctly) he was carrying Narsil anticipating going back to Rivendell with the Ring, that it was time for it to be forged again. However, if you are going to pick a weapon that is effective against the servants of Sauron, why not pick Narsil, shard that it is?

 

[HLGStrider]

Aragil, the only problem I have with you "taking back your theory" which I was likewise leaning towards is that once again I have been called HGLStrider, when my name is HLGStrider... Typo, I know, but it's getting a tad bit pandemic.
Okay, here's my comment.

I think there is a bit more to the identification story, if he was assuming that Frodo knew about Elendil and Isulder. This might've been unusual info for a hobbit, but we're talking about the bearer!

Before Butterbur entered the room, Aragorn was about to tell "his story". What was this? That he was a friend of Gandalf, or was he going to spill all the beans, say he was Isulder's heir, and show the sword just to clinch things?

It is very worth considering.

Also, I still think he was back into a corner. I have always found backed into a corner with barely anyway out but still determined heroes terribly romantic, and no one is going to take that away from my reading...

 

[Eonwe]

FYI the sword shown to the hobbits is the very last proof. He already has said his name is Strider, he says he is Aragorn son of Arathorn, and says the verse all that is gold does not glitter. All three of these things are in the letter that Gandalf sends. He tells them that the time will come soon when the blade will be forged anew, as the last piece of proof.