Gothmog said:...I do wish to thank you for making me think more about my views on this matter...
Khôr’nagan said:YES!!!! That's even better!
As they say in Galaxy Quest: Never Give Up, Never Surrender!!!
Thus spake Zarathustra...Élhendi said:The easiest way of settling this:
If the works of JRRT only applies to Christians, then there is a high probability of Allegory.
But if the works also applies to other religions, then Applicability is the word.
Could someone please call in the Hindus and the Muslims?
Or is it too simple?
Élhendi said:The easiest way of settling this:
If the works of JRRT only applies to Christians, then there is a high probability of Allegory.
But if the works also applies to other religions, then Applicability is the word.
Could someone please call in the Hindus and the Muslims?
Or is it too simple?
"The Lord of The Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work, unconsciously at first, but consciously in the revision". Elsewhere he states "I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic" (ibid.). In 1958 he wrote that The Lord of the Rings is "a tale, which is built on or out of certain ‘religious’ ideas, but is not an allegory of them."
Galadriel bestows upon the Fellowship seven mystical gifts, which are surely analogous to the seven sacraments, and as such are real signs of grace, and not mere symbols (and hence this is a specifically Catholic feature of the book).
or Frodo’s willingness both to serve and to carry his burden. Or, in the provision of lembas, can we not see the Eucharist. Before the Fellowship depart from Lorien they have a final supper where the mystical elvish bread lembas is shared, and they all drink from a common cup. Given Tolkien’s remark that "I fell in love with the Blessed Sacrament from the beginning and by the mercy of God never have fallen out again" some comparison with the Last Supper is inevitable. And it would be strange if Tolkien’s tryst with the saving bread was not somewhere replicated in his great saga.
BlackCaptain said:http://www.ewtn.com/library/HUMANITY/JRRTOLK.HTM
Can anyone prove this argument wrong, now, with that first quote provided?
Tolkien tell us that:
"The Lord of The Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work, unconsciously at first, but consciously in the revision". Elsewhere he states "I am a Christian (which can be deduced from my stories), and in fact a Roman Catholic" (ibid.).
The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism. However that is very clumsily put, and sounds more self-important than I feel. For as a matter of fact, I have consciously planned very little; and should chiefly be grateful for having been brought up (since I was eight) in a Faith that has nourished me and taught me all the little that I know; and that I owe to my mother, who clung to her conversion and died young, largely through the hardships of poverty resulting from it.
From: Letters #142 (my italics)
Galadriel bestows upon the Fellowship seven mystical gifts, which are surely analogous to the seven sacraments, and as such are real signs of grace, and not mere symbols (and hence this is a specifically Catholic feature of the book).
Gandalf or Aragorn (and even possibly Frodo) may be seen as Christ-like: with Aragorn the king entering his kingdom, the return of whom everyone is expecting; the apparent "resurrection" of Gandalf when he dies on the Bridge of Khazad-Dum after the fight with the Balrog; or Boromir’s surrender of his life for his friends in order to save his companions (made all the more remarkable because of his earlier attempt to seize the ring by force and by his subsequent repentance); or Frodo’s willingness both to serve and to carry his burden.
BlackCaptain said:Can anyone prove this argument wrong, now, with that first quote provided? It seems like Tolkien was inconsistent, saying how much he hates allegory, but then admiting to putting symbolism in. But it's not like Tolkien to be inconsistent, so I'm not sure what to think.
You didn't bother to read the posts in this thread, now did you?BlackCaptain said:Right . . . I understand it as his opinion. But nothing can discredit TOLKIEN'S own opinion when he says:
"The Lord of The Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work, unconsciously at first, but consciously in the revision"
Unless this is a fake quote?? But I think I remember reading it somewhere anyways, so I'm not sure.
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