Christopher Paollini's Eragon. (merged)

[Majimaune]

The movie comes out on Thursday the 14th of December for us Aussies.

 

[Noldor_returned]

I'm planning to start reading the books again in two weeks exactly. Which happens to coincide with the holidays...

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Here are some reviews of the thing, I got the book just cause I'm open minded and will read anything, so here goes:

School Library Journal, while noting correctly that the book would garner many fans, added that it "does not approach the depth, uniqueness, or mastery of J. R. R. Tolkien's works, and sometimes the magic solutions are just too convenient for getting out of difficult situations."
Common Sense Media, a family-friendly review site, was particularly scathing, stating that, "It's not long, however, before they begin to notice the long-winded descriptions, the clichés and hackneyed dialogue, and the derivative nature of the plot—straight out of Star Wars by way of The Lord of the Rings, with bits of other great fantasies thrown in here and there. That this is a great achievement for one so young is undeniable, and many children will love it. It certainly ranks right up there with other derivative, overblown fantasies written by adults, such as Terry Brooks's Sword of Shannara series."[5]
This criticism from USAToday mirrors Common Sense Media's accusation of derivative storytelling: "The novel also owes a debt to Luke Skywalker as the teen hero trains to be a Dragon Rider while avenging his uncle's murder,"[6] as well as the fact that the book "echoes Tolkien in its pseudo-Celtic language and imagined universe of dwarfs and elves."



Has anyone seen this site: http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/ Its a few people who hate Eragon, and describes exactly what parts from other series was plagarized in Eragon. Some of it's still under construction, but they have the star wars section up and all the similarities.

 

[Sammyboy]

Interesting reviews there Erestor, just one thought I'd like to throw into the mix here.

Since the release of LoTR, the Star Wars films etc., they have been a huge benchmark for films/books that have followed their respective releases. Therefore anything in the fantasy/sci fi genres are going to be held up to these two, and other books/programmes too, and there will no doubt be similarities found between the 'old' and the 'new'. Especially to those on this board, many of which are very familiar with Tolkien's works, or have been around them for many years.

I am perhaps being naieve here, but there must be a fairly finite amount of storylines, plotlines and so on that these kinds of books can follow without being considered 'derivative' or plaigarism.

I would love to write a fantasy book on the scale of LoTR and the whole Middle Earth world in general, but whatever I would write would doubtlessly sound or feel very 'Lord of the Rings' (though as I've never written before so would no doubt be simply 'rubbish!' )

I'm not having a go at anyone here of course, just putting another viewpoint forward. I've not read any of the Eragon books, and may no doubt come to the same conclusions as many of these reviewers and people here have.

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

well like i said, i never read the book yet but i was just posting my findings. I understand completely what you mean about the finite amount of plot and story outlines.

 

[Mike]

Has anyone seen this site: http://www.anti-shurtugal.com/ It's pretty funny haha, its a few people who like hate Eragon and are doing whatever it takes, and describes exactly what parts from other series was plagarized in Eragon. Some of it's still under construction, but they have the star wars section up and all the similarities and all.

Thanks for the link. It was pretty funny, and a good portion of it is true. I checked out the forums: turns out there's a large community of Eragon-haters spewing Virtriol. Some of the stuff they say is really, really, really mean.

I did smile when they called Christopher "Paoweenie", however.

But they really do take things too far (from what I read). The threads about the author especially. As I said--really mean.

Makes you wonder if there's an anti-Tolkien site, complete with a forum, somewhere.

I am perhaps being naieve here, but there must be a fairly finite amount of storylines, plotlines and so on that these kinds of books can follow without being considered 'derivative' or plaigarism.

Bah. If that were true, I'd give up writing right now. Not everything has to be the same.

I don't say I'd go as far as saying Eragon "plagerized" anything--I didn't read the whole book--prose was too purple and painful--but it definately is derivative.

And so is "Sword of Shannarah" and "Dragonlance" and every fantasy book I hate.

Paollini's age has nothing to do with it--whatever age you are, there is no excuse for bad writing. I'm pointing at Margeret Weis and Tracy Hickman right now!

It certainly ranks right up there with other derivative, overblown fantasies written by adults, such as Terry Brooks's Sword of Shannara series."[5]

Just realized that's exactly what I just said.

Ah, well. Christmas Break is coming up, and I'm planning on watching a lot of movies--Children of Men, Apocolypto, 300. I'll be watching Eragon too, just for the heck of it (Go John Malcovich!).

 

[HLGStrider]

I would disagree with the age being no excuse because at some level it is . . . but it isn't an excuse for a publisher or editor.

The stuff I wrote at 13 isn't comparable to the stuff I wrote at 15 which in turn isn't comparable to 18 which in turn isn't as good as what I am writing now. Anywhere along the path I would've been broken hearted if someone had called my writing "bad" but I don't think it was bad by a thirteen-year-old standard. Compared to what most 13-year-olds could/would/do write, I would go as far as to say it is pretty dang good in parts. Still, when I read over it I sort of wince and think, "Hmm. . . that's melodramatic, that was obviously picked right out of Star Wars/Lord of the Rings/Narnia/Anne of Green Gables."

When one is thirteen one does not have the life experience needed to write certain things and so you copy. Or you can make it up, but it just doesn't come out as well. Now with fantasy a lot is pure imagination. Very few people have ridden dragons (Though I think my writing would improve if I could ever get on a horse. . .), but still this experience factor is very important when dealing with emotion. For example my kissing scenes have definitely gotten a lot better since I caught my Marine . . .

Also, you just get better with writing and reading. Some prodigies just have it natural I suppose, but the majority don't.

Now, that said any publisher who had snatched up my work at 13,15, or even 18 and published it would probably be nuts. Currently, I think I am a better writer than Paolini. I probably wasn't when I was 15.

 

[Mike]

I would disagree with the age being no excuse because at some level it is . . . but it isn't an excuse for a publisher or editor.

Exactly. If a book has many errors, and simply isn't written well, than it shouldn't be published--no matter what age you are.

I'm not getting any brownie points for my age in the magazine market. I get treated the same way as everyone else who sells short stories--age doesn't matter. Your finished product does.

I could pull out the stuff I wrote when I was 12 and say it was really good for a twelve year old. How many twelve year olds write a 250-page novel? But that doesn't mean it was ready for public consumption. It still means, in general, that it was bad.

People need time to develop and grow with writing. It's a painful process, to be sure, but it's worth it in the end.

Paollini has not reached the point in his writing where I believe its worth reading. Maybe he will. But at the moment, he's twenty-something and I took a peak at "Eldest"--it was just as juvenile, with the same horrid prose. Part of this may be that he did not yet have to deal with rejection--he wrote a book and his parents published it for him, at which Knopf saw it and saw a marketing ploy.

There are much worst books published by people much older than Paolinni, to be sure. But we don't give them any slack for their age. When you're at the published stage, age should no longer be an issue.

Your writing should.

 

[Majimaune]

You guys have too much time on your hands to write all that. It took me long enough to read it all.

Um I'm just checking out the link and stuff and will write more about what I thought of it later.

 

[HLGStrider]

One thing I would like to know (which I probably could find out if I took the time to look into it and knew where to look) is how much alteration there was between the self-published version and the version Knopf is running. That would make a HUGE difference in how I view Paolini as a writer. If they bought it up as a ploy and just published it unchanged, then I don't have a ton of respect for the way they handled it, but I think a lot of what we critisized is more than excusable. If this is the work of hours of editting to get it to this point, then Paolini probably doesn't have much of a future in writing.

About a year ago I temporarily despaired of ever being published but still wanted to make my living somehow with the written word so I seriously looked into becoming a copy editor. I still think if I ever wanted to pursue it (I didn't want it enough to go back to college was the main hold up. I really hate college . . . but that's another story.), it would be a fascinating career, but there is a ton of work a copy writer does in order to help an author maintain consistency as well as stylistic and spelling issues. A lot of readers (one on the forum notably . . . I miss Rhi) said that the book simply gave her a desire to take a red pencil to it so she found it frustrating, but a red pencil is very powerful and it is basically what Paolini needs at points.

According to what I've read in my writer's guide book a manuscript goes through several alterations before it reaches the public. The first and the last should have considerable differences no matter how good the author. You don't just publish as is. Did Eragon?

His book is already sufficient in size that if you hacked out the superfluous descriptions it wouldn't hurt it. You'd still have a publishable sized book. Same with a few inconsistencies. A good editor could've smoothed them out.

The question is, why didn't they?

There are four possible answers:

A. The author had already gained a following via self-publishing they were afraid of alienating by making changes (would have to be a LARGE following who they felt would threaten them financially).
B. They thought that success was so sure there was no point in spending extra expense on more than proof editing. (ie publisher was cheep and lazy)
C. The whole thing really just was a ploy based on publishing a "kid" author and they didn't really care what the critics said. People would just buy it from curiousity.
D. This is the edited version. They did all they could but Paolini's manuscript simply wasn't salvagable as anything but the copy they put on the market.

B and C are very similar and I think the most likely answers.

 

[Majimaune]

A. The author had already gained a following via self-publishing they were afraid of alienating by making changes (would have to be a LARGE following who they felt would threaten them financially).

Very possible but I think not.

B. They thought that success was so sure there was no point in spending extra expense on more than proof editing. (ie publisher was cheep and lazy)

Most likely out of all of them I think.

C. The whole thing really just was a ploy based on publishing a "kid" author and they didn't really care what the critics said. People would just buy it from curiousity.

Well I think the cover would get them in pretty quick. A dragon on it always looks good. Although people say "Don't judge a book by its cover" but everyone always does to some extent.

D. This is the edited version. They did all they could but Paolini's manuscript simply wasn't salvagable as anything but the copy they put on the market.

If 'D' then I'd like to speak to the editor.

I'm reading Eragon again before I go and see the movie. I will also read Eldest if I can borrow it from some one *looks at NR*.

 

[Rhiannon]

I miss Rhi

You called?

The bottom line is that Eregon did not deserve to be published, at least not in its current form, and we're all very offended by the poor taste of the publishing world and of the media hype that makes bad books bestsellers.

Tsk, tsk, I say, to the world in general. What do they teach them in these schools?

 

[HLGStrider]

Welcome back!

 

[Majimaune]

What do they teach them in these schools?

Well if you really want to know I can tell you......

 

[Rhiannon]

Welcome back!

Thanks!