Could 👁️Sauron be the Lord of the Morgul?

[BluestEye]

Hello all...

I have a question...

My friend asked me yesterday if it is possible that the Lord of the Morgul was actualy Sauron himself. I know this sounds crazy a little bit, but keep reading

I told him it is NOT possible because Tolkien himself wrote many times that the Nazgul were 9 and that Sauron trusted the Morgul Lord above all because he knew he was bound to the One Ring and would return it to Sauron instead of trying to use it himself.

But it IS possible, if you think about it... Though I don't realy believe so.

See, remember Khamul the Shadow of the East? He was named in many places: "The Second to the Chief" of the Nazgul. This Easterling King was the Second to the Lord of Morgul. But in other places he is also called: "Sauron's Lieutenant"... And this is the same thing! If Khamul was Second to the Chief and also Sauron's Lieutenant - it is possible that Sauron himself was the Morgul Lord, the head of the Nazgul, the Ninth Black Rider...

What do you say? Is it possible?

BluestEye

 

[Mormegil]

No, It is not possible that Sauron was a Nazgul. The Nazgul were all men.
Sauron held the one ruling ring, and it did not turn him into a wraith, he was able to control the power of it. So if he could control the most powerful ring, why would one of the nine rings turn him into a wraith.
It doesn't make sense.

Also I cannot see Sauron making the rings just to turn himself into a slave of them.

So No, Sauron definately wasn't one of the Nazgul.

 

[BluestEye]

Thank you, Mormegil

For your post. But I didn't say that the One RIng or any other Ring turned Sauron into a Wraith. Actualy, I didn't even say that the Lord of Morgul was a Wraith. Maybe Sauron "played" some tricks just to look like a Wraith to other people and to his Nazgul. Maybe only 8 of the Nazgul were Men, and the 9th was only Sauron disguised. He did it in the past, why wouldn't he do it in the Third Age again?

Bluest Eye

 

[JOHOVISHTA]

Hey everyone,
My first post. How exciting .
Anyway I might be a bit silly but I thought the witch king of Angmar was the head of the nine ?

 

[Mormegil]

Ok, You've made me look for quotes.

Men proved easier to ensnare. Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old.
(The Silmarillion, Of The Rings Of Power)

It quite clearly states that the Nine Riings were all worn by men.

It is said that these were indeed the Ulairi, whom Sauron called the Nazgul, the nine Ringwraiths that had long remained hidden, but returned now to prepare the ways of their master, for he had began to grow again.
(The Silmarillion, Of The Rings Of Power)

This again backs up the fact that Sauron was not one of the Nazgul.

'True alas, is our guess. This is not one of the Ulairi, as many have long supposed. It is Sauron himself who has taken shape again and now grows apace.'
(The Silmarillion, Of The Rings Of Power)

Enough said.

Sauron had many ears, and soon he heard rumour of the One Ring, which above all things he desired, and he sent forth the Nazgul to take it.
(The Silmarillion, Of The Rings Of Power)

He 'sent' forth the Nazgul, he didn't 'bring' forth the Nazgul.


And As for the Lord of the Nazgul himself.......

Such was still the power of the voice of Saruman that even the Lord of the Nazgul did not question what it said.
(Unfinished Tales, The Hunt For The Ring)

Since when was Saruman more powerful than Sauron himself?????

They were quite incapable of acting against his will, and if one of them, even the Witch-king their captain, had seized the One Ring, he would have brought it back to his master.
(Unfinished Tales, The Hunt For The Ring)

A quote which definately has Sauron and the Witch-king as different people.

So I can only conclude that Sauron was not a Nazgul. I could get more quotes to back this up, but there is really no need. These quotes prove my point.

 

[BluestEye]

Thanks you, Mormegil... again

Now I am convinced that Sauron cannot be the Witch King himself (as I thought before, but I needed more proof).

Thank you for your time and for your quotes

BluestEye

 

[Mormegil]

You're welcome.

 

[aragil]

I think 'Sauron's Lieutenant' refers to Khamul's position as Sauron's viceroy in Dol Guldur. Similarly, the Mouth of Sauron was Sauron's Lieutenant of Barad-Dur, and Gothmog was the Lieutenant of the Witch-King (Morgul). Even Sauron was the Lieutenant of Morgoth, especially in his position as warden of Minas Tirith. I think Lieutenant here is meant to represent someone acting under the authority of someone else, either remotely (Khamul for Sauron at Dol Guldur, Sauron for Morgoth at Minas Tirith), or else conjointly (Gothmog for the Witch-King in Morgul, the Mouth of Sauron for Sauron at Barad-Dur).
In any case, distinctions are made several times in the various texts between the Witch-King of Angmar (The Morgul Lord) and the Necromancer of Dol Guldur (Sauron), so I don't think it is likely that the two were the same.

 

[aragil]

Doh! You're tricksssy BE, I see you have opened (and now closed) this thread here as well as in the HoME forum.

 

[BluestEye]

Yes...

I didn't quite decide where this Post most belonged, so I've oppened it in both Topics, but then Beorned told me it isn't proper to do it in these Forums so I closed it.

BluestEye