Could 👁️Sauron have taken ove Middle-Earth without the One Ring?

[ILLOTRTM]

Well.... see.... Sauron already had all kinds of forces at his disposal, the Nazgul, orcs, Sauruman ( Sorry if I spelled that wrong)..... couldn't he have simply sent out a big army of orcs like he had before and destroyed Frodo and the others with... well a big army? Or... wait... was that what he was doing in the first place? Any opinions/answers?

 

[The Necromancer]

I believe Sauron, well, was too stuborn to attack until he had an army that he KNEW would kill all or make all surrender. Because of this, I believe he opened himself up for a shot in the ribs, and Frodo broke em' all.

 

[TheDarkElf]

I haven't got the books here with me, or the time to look up the quote, but in the Council of Elrond they discuss it. I think that even without the ring, then Sauron would eventually win. It says something along the lines of if Tom Bombadil took the ring and hid it, even he would fall eventually, after everyone else.

 

[ILLOTRTM]

hmmm... now that you mention it... I think I remember that part... see, I kinda get the feeling that this is what Sauron was trying to do the whole time... what with the attack from the orcs and Saruman trying to bring down the mountain and what have you.... but... I'm almost asking... why didn't he attack something else while he had the time... Oh I dunno. Just thinking out loud...

 

[TheDarkElf]

I think Sauron wanted total victory, if he attacked with smaller numbers then if he waited, there was a chance he could fail, and remember, he didn't know if someone like Aragorn had claimed the ring. If that had happened, a small army would not have helped, he needed all his strength. Remember, he would have had to attack Gondor first, and it would have taken a huge army. Therefore, he couldn't have a ttacked any earlier. He was already rushed when he saw Aragorn reveal himself in the Palantir.

 

[Anamatar IV]

he almost did!

 

[Anamatar IV]

Originally posted by ILLOTRTM
hmmm... now that you mention it... I think I remember that part... see, I kinda get the feeling that this is what Sauron was trying to do the whole time... what with the attack from the orcs and Saruman trying to bring down the mountain and what have you.... but... I'm almost asking... why didn't he attack something else while he had the time... Oh I dunno. Just thinking out loud...

He attacked 4 countries at once. He attacked gondor and rohan simultaneasly (sp?), he attacked lorien, and he attacked esgaroth. Whats more is that he had the victory over esgaroth and would have had it over gondor and rohan. But what sauron had not expected was the dead people...

 

[ILLOTRTM]

I supose my question's been answered!

 

[aDaHe]

i think that if sauron had wanted to he could have taken middle earth long before. the inital attack on gondor was, though a very strong attack and almost broke them. if sauron had sent more forces then he would have had them. dont forget that the main reason that the attack on gondor failed was because the black captian fell. the orcs had no will left and were crushed. this is why sauron had to wait for the captains of the west to attack him so that he could drive them with his on will.

i canot remember the quote but it went some thing like after frodo claimed the ring for himself the will of sauron was directed elsewhere and the orcs broke like waves onpn the shore. (like i say i dont remember the qoute) if frodo had not acted then , the captains of the west would have died in that hour and they were the last hope of middle earth

 

[Ithrynluin]

It was pretty obvious that nothing could have stopped Sauron, even without the ring.It's just that with the ring his victory would have been instant,but without it it would be slow but guaranteed.

 

[Anamatar IV]

Originally posted by aDaHe
i think that if sauron had wanted to he could have taken middle earth long before. the inital attack on gondor was, though a very strong attack and almost broke them. if sauron had sent more forces then he would have had them. dont forget that the main reason that the attack on gondor failed was because the black captian fell. the orcs had no will left and were crushed. this is why sauron had to wait for the captains of the west to attack him so that he could drive them with his on will.

and I quote:

-

There is no quote in the books telling of this. But let me quote this:

In that clearair watchmen on the walls saw from afar a new sight of fear and all hope left them..."the Corsairs of Umbar" men shouted..."It is the last stroke of doom!"

But the hosts of mordor were enhearted and filled with a new lust and fury, came yellinginto the onset....

But the hosts of mordor were siezed with bewilderment, and a great wizardry was upon them that their own ships should be filled with their foes; and a black dread fell on them...

so clearly it was the grey company that defeated the army.

 

[ILLOTRTM]

So basically, Sauron was being an impatient little villain and decided he wanted it done fast instead of right?

 

[Anamatar IV]

Originally posted by ILLOTRTM
So basically, Sauron was being an impatient little villain and decided he wanted it done fast instead of right?

He DID do it right. Other than in lorien he had victory over middle earth. If you were a dark lord you would not spend more years building strength while your foes did too. Yo uwouldnt think that dead people would start kicking your arse! If sauron would have waited he knew aragorn would become king. Gondor would gain strength and become proud. By that time the rohirrim would be in gondor. Why not kill the kingless city before the horse men come? He was very tactical.

 

[ILLOTRTM]

And yet he still failed.

 

[Anamatar IV]

Originally posted by ILLOTRTM
And yet he still failed.

he did not FAIL he was defeated. I consider it a HUGE diference. If he failed gondor would have thwarted his first attack, killed more than 1 of the nazgul, and would have been in the wave of victory. He was defeated because out of nowhere some dead people came and scared the corsairs away from their ships and the heir of the king of gondor brought joy to the west. That is defeat-not failure.

 

[ILLOTRTM]

I'm sorry for being so wrong

 

[aDaHe]

i agree that he did not fail, but was defeated. tacically he would have won, bar the dead guys. but the dead guys did not acutally go on to the fields of pelenor. they fought to get aragorn to the boats that he and the duneain of the north sailed to the aid of gondor. i still feel that the main reason that sauron lost that assult was that the black captain was killed(? ) and so the will of those forces was weakened. but strategicly he did fail. i dont no about you but i play heaps of stratagy games online & off and one thing that i have learned is that you never get so worked up in one little area of the map that you do not see other attacks that are commig on you flanks. frodo was this attack. sauron knew that he was comming. he knew of the halfling spys and also that if they needed to spy aragorn had the plantir to see all that he needed. if he was strategicly incliined he would have see it comming. his fall came because he did not guard all the doors.