Denethor the Wise ?

[Isengrin]

Hello you folk

It my first post, so dont be too rough with me .
*(Im french, so forgive my poor language)*

My question is :

"Why do Denethor never been trapped by Sauron when he was looking in the Palantir ? "

Saruman the White have fall for the first time he have look in it...in 3000 i guess.
So, why an Istari dont been able to command the Palantir, when a mere human can do it

Its true that Denethor finish to fall when Faramir is wounded... but still, he have look in the Palantir during a long time.

I hope this question never been post, cuz i dont have the year needed to look all of them

 

[Confusticated]

Hmm.
Well the way I see it, Sauron did get ahold of Denethor using the Palantir. It was mostly the things that Sauron showed him in the palantir that caused him to loose hope.
As far as why Sauron didn't cause Denethor to do even more damage? Someone else might know.

 

[Húrin Thalion]

There are some rather interesting notes on this in the UT. Put simply Denethor had the right to use the palantir, he was the indirect descendant of Anarion and as such the Palantír made him stronger. This is why Aragorn was able to wrestle the stone out of Sauron's grasp. Those stones were given to the house of Elendil and in that they stayed. It is also said that Denethor indeed was powerful. There were no servants of the nameless that could compete with his will and this is why he couldn't have someone watch the palantír all the time.

Elen

 

[Leto]

I think Saruman didn't totally loose control...always he believed he was doing it for himself. He thought he was dealing with Sauron as an equal, tricking him by feigning allegiance, while he always had intended to get the ring himself and take control. You can tell by the way his orcs act. They follow Saruman's orders, not Sauron's. Of course, his evil acts were always aiding Sauron in his scheme...but he was never really a 'lackey'. The corruption was in his own heart and character, and all such corruption aids Sauron in some way. With the palantir, Sauron was able to bend Saruman's evil to aid his own plans.
Denethor did not have the same corruption. He was driven to despair by his own thoughts and beliefs, which Sauron took advantage of by reinforcing those beliefs.
The failings in each person's heart and soul is what allows evil to triumph. Because the Hobbits are so simple and true, the evil in the ring takes long to conquer them. But even Hobbits have weakness which may be exploited...feeling weak and helpless in such a big, dark world...and so even Frodo in the end gave in. Sam was true to the bitter end...though I think even Sam could have been defeated in the end, had Gollum not come along. For his simple minded loyalty to his master, and his soft heart, would have kept him from going against Frodo to destroy the ring. His despair then, presented with the choice of destroying his master along with the ring, or waiting for Sauron to take them both, would have overcome him to the ruin of all. For as brave and stout as he was, I do not believe he would have had the strength to harm Frodo, even if he had to choose between Frodo and saving all of Middle Earth.

 

[Lantarion]

Yes, and so Sauron didn't really have to excercise all of his mental boggling prowess, because Denethor was already in a rather poor state - mentally speaking.
But I don't recall when Gandalf tried to confront Sauron through the Palantír.. As I recall, the Orthanc-seeing stone fell from the window, Gadnalf took it and kept it from sight, and after Merry had his little escapade I thught Gandalf kept it even tighter. And at one point Aragorn mastered the palantír, but that's prefectly natural as he is the Heir of Isildur.

 

[Wonko The Sane]

The way I see it Sauron didn't want Denethor to fall, he knew the importance of casting doubt in Denethor's mind, so he merely showed Denethor what he wanted him to see.
Thereby influencing and manipulating his choices in the war.
He did it to gain power to his side, he didn't need another ally like he needed in Saruman because Saruman was so power-hungry that he took it upon himself to wage war against the forces of good and Sauron was pretty well off in that department himself.

It was important to turning the tides of battle for Sauron to sow discord amongst the Stewards of Gondor.

 

[Walter]

In the case of Denethor, the Steward was strengthened, even against Sauron himself, by the fact the Stones were far more amenable to legitimate users: most of all to true "Heirs of Elendil" (as Aragorn), but also to one with inherited authority(as Denethor), as compared to Saruman, or Sauron. It may be noted that the effects were different. Saruman fell under the domination of Sauron and desired his victory, or no longer opposed it. Denethor remained steadfast in his rejection of Sauron, but was made to believe that his victory was inevitable, and so fell into despair. The reasons for this difference were doubt that in the first place Denethor was a man of great strength of will, and maintained the integrity of his personality until the final blow of the (apparently) mortal wound of his only surviving son. He was proud, but this was by no means merely personal: he loved Gondor and its people, and deemed himself appointed by destiny to lead them in this desperate time. And in the second place the Anor-stone was his by right, and nothing but expediency was against his use of it in his grave anxieties. He must have guessed that the Ithil-stone was in evil hands, and risked contact with it, trusting his strength. His trust was not entirely unjustified. Sauron failed to dominate him and could only influence him by deceits. Probably he did not at first look towards Mordor, but was content with such "far views" as the Stone would afford; hence his surprising knowledge of events far off.

Unfinished Tales - The Palantíri