Destruction of the Witch-King

[Isthir]

OK, it's in Appendix A, the section on Gondor.....

It's Glorfindel.....

What he says, which was & is misconscrued by PJ, The Witch-king & many people on this site, is NOT that "no man can harm or kill the Witch-king" but, "Not by the hand of man will he fall".

It's simply a prophesy, not a life insurance guarentee against any encounters against men.

A prophecy indeed. Now, look at all prophecies, they hint at their meaning but more often than not elude the entirety of it. Think of the words "not by the hand man well he fall" There are some possibilities to this that have been discussed already:

¤ No man of Men will bring the fall of WK
¤ No man of any Race will bring the fall of WK

With all that prefacing out of the way, I can freely state that all of the WK's power stems from the Ring that he wears, not he himself. So, as an almost most far stretched conclusion, Merry's blade bit through the armorment of the Mortal Ring to the man benieth who had fadded, causing the stretching of life to falter of him, allowing the Shield Maiden to commit the final blow.

Just my thoughts.

-Isthir​

 

[Grond]

I think this inculdes Man,WoMAN, Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Gollum, etc. etc. That could not harm the Witch King. I mean do you think Legolas could go and shoot an arrow at him and he is gone I can't picture it. The Man part appiles to everything and everyone in my opinion except may be my man Gandalf.

Nothing could touch him nothing. Except those daggers.(Name of the daggers in the first few posts)

You'd be right... except the author himself doesn't agree with you.

from Appendix A, The Kings of the Mark,
38 For her shield-arm was broken by the mace of the Witch-king; but he was brought of nothing, and thus the words of Glorfindel long before to King Eärnur were fulfilled, that the Witch-king would not fall by the hand of man. For it is said in the songs of the Mark that in this deed Éowyn had the aid of Théoden's esquire, and that he also was not a Man but a halfling out of a far country, though Éomer gave him honour in the Mark and the name of Holdwine. ([This Holdwine was none other than Meriadoc the Magnificent who was Master of Buckland.)

The clear intent of this footnote is to let us know that:
1) Eowyn (a woman and not a man) killed the Witch-king and
2) she was aided by Merry (a hobbit and not a man) and
3) thus was Glorfindel's "prophsy" fulfilled.

 

[Fechin]

Very good you found the answer!!! But I still like my version much better! Once I get something in my head like that I can't change it lol.

 

[Fechin]

Ok I got a question. What about the other 8 Nazgul? Did the same rules apply to them or was it just for the WK the whole dagger and woman thing. Do the other 8 what kind of rules do they have can they just not be killed period like the my version stated below.

I think this inculdes Man,WoMAN, Hobbit, Elf, Dwarf, Gollum, etc. etc. That could not harm the Witch King. I mean do you think Legolas could go and shoot an arrow at him and he is gone I can't picture it. The Man part appiles to everything and everyone in my opinion except may be my man Gandalf.

Nothing could touch him nothing. Except for those daggers.

 

[Grond]

Ok I got a question. What about the other 8 Nazgul? Did the same rules apply to them or was it just for the WK the whole dagger and woman thing. Do the other 8 what kind of rules do they have can they just not be killed period like the my version stated below.

I think you've kind of missed the point. The Witch-king COULD have been killed by Man. Glorfindel prophesied (through Elvish foresight) that his doom was not to be at the hands of Man. All nine of the Nazgul were bound to Earth by their enslavement to the Ring but I am sure could be bested in battle much as the Witch-king was if they were faced with the right foe and the right weapon. (I haven't really researched this and my statements are my opinions only!)

 

[Fechin]

Oh ok so basically they were just like anyone else it is just that only an idiot would face them? Ok I am still reading the other works by JRR so I will sort it out soon enough lol.

 

[Beleg]

What do you people make of this quote then?

Leaving the inn at night and running off into the dark is an impossible solution of the difficulties of presentation here (which I can see). It is the last thing that Aragorn would have done. It is based on a misconception of the Black Riders throughout, which I beg Z to reconsider. Their peril is almost entirely due to the unreasoning fear which they inspire (like ghosts). They have no great physical power against the fearless; but what they have, and the fear that they inspire, is enormously increased in darkness. The Witch-king, their leader, is more powerful in all ways than the others; but he must not yet be raised to the stature of Vol. III. There, put in command by Sauron, he is given an added demonic force. But even in the Battle of the Pelennor, the darkness had only just broken.

Letter No 210.

 

[Anárion]

Makes sense.
The Nazgûl just inspired fear in the heart of man and didnt really have a match, because everyone would run or cower in fear and then die. Added with darkness, men had no hope to defeat him and were to afraid to try...interesting.
But then why didnt Aragorn kill one on Amon Sûl then? He was brave enough to fight them and he was doing a good job, but then he stopped. Maybe the darkness got to him..?

 

[Gandalf White]

But then why didnt Aragorn kill one on Amon Sûl then? He was brave enough to fight them and he was doing a good job, but then he stopped. Maybe the darkness got to him..?

In the books Aragorn goes after the Nazgul with two flaming pieces of wood, not a sword or anything. Also, the Ringwraiths withdraw right after Frodo is stabbed because they believe they have completed their mission and that the Morgul blade will soon reach Frodo's heart. They don't really bother to put up any sort of fight.

 

[Inderjit S]

That's because in the wilderness 'fire is their friend' and it may have been more effective that his broken sword at warding off the Ringwraiths.

Of course, if any of the Hobbits had stabbed a Ringwraith with a barrow-blade then they would have been destroyed, but that was because of the nature of their swords.

 

[Lantarion]

I think you've kind of missed the point. The Witch-king COULD have been killed by Man.

Yes of course he could have been; but as I see it the Witch-King could not have been killed without the aid of something to break whatever 'spell' still held the W-K in the Seen, and this aid was delivered by Merry.
I believe that not a single one of the Úlairi could have been killed by any regular Man, because they existed for the most part in the Unseen (as proved by Frodo's vision of them when he wears the Ring). The darkness/light issue does not discuss whether the darkness or light made them more vulnerable or not, but that the darkness or light affected their strength and powers (fear, Black Breath, physical strength).
An Elf, I believe, could have killed one of the Nazgûl, as an Elf could possibly (not probably) have killed a Valarauko, and for the same reason: both Balrogs and the Úlairi interexist in both the Seen and Unseen, and the apparent power of Elves to travel between these realms is the only real weapon against either of these enemies. And that is why the Nazgûl, if this theory holds true, were so afraid of Glorfindel as he chased them to the Ford of Bruinen.
There are probably several flaws in this reasoning, but I would like to hear them.

 

[Gothmog]

In the books Aragorn goes after the Nazgul with two flaming pieces of wood, not a sword or anything.

And let us suppose that the foot-long hilt-shard of Narsil had indeed struck the Witch-king. Would Anduril have been such a spectacular sword?

 

[Gandalf White]

And let us suppose that the foot-long hilt-shard of Narsil had indeed struck the Witch-king. Would Anduril have been such a spectacular sword?

That would create a very interesting dilemma...

Anyway, I was explaining that Aragorn really didn't have a chance to kill any Nazgul on Weathertop.

 

[Gothmog]

I agree with you. It is just that the thought of what would have happened to Narsil croped up as I was reading your post.

 

[Gandalf White]

I agree with you. It is just that the thought of what would have happened to Narsil croped up as I was reading your post.

Yeah, they might as well have flushed the remaining pieces down the toilet, along with a copy of the prophecy...