Did Cirdan engage in Nirnaeth Arnoediad and ⚔️War of Wrath conflicts?

[Turin_Turambar]

Of all the characters created by Tolkien, cirdan is the most uncertain whether he exists in wars or not. Do you think Cirdan fought in Nirnaeth Arnoediad and War of Wrath?

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Nirnaeth Arnoediad? Possibly not. The Battle of Unnumbered Tears was fought between the Union of Maedhros, and the Host of Morgoth. Therefore, it is unlikely that Cirdan would have participated in it, considering that he was a Sindar Elf, rather than Noldor. In addition, Cirdan probably had little connection with the Noldorin Elves, since he often remained with the Teleri.

War of Wrath? Possibly, but it remains uncertain.

 

[Turin_Turambar]

Nirnaeth Arnoediad? Possibly not. The Battle of Unnumbered Tears was fought between the Union of Maedhros, and the Host of Morgoth. Therefore, it is unlikely that Cirdan would have participated in it, considering that he was a Sindar Elf, rather than Noldor. In addition, Cirdan probably had little connection with the Noldorin Elves, since he often remained with the Teleri.

War of Wrath? Possibly, but it remains uncertain.

I guess you don't know that 5000 falas elves fought in the nirnaeth arnoediad.

 

[Ent]

I guess you don't know that 5000 falas elves fought in the nirnaeth arnoediad.

Ouch, that was a bit harsh. Perhaps include the citation for where the information is found, and use a little different approach.
Where do we find that information sir Turin_Turambar? I'm doing a quick little bit of research on this... thanks.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

I guess you don't know that 5000 falas elves fought in the nirnaeth arnoediad.

Ah - I did not indeed! Thank you though. I suppose I shall have to read more...

 

[Elthir]

I guess you don't know that 5000 falas elves fought in the nirnaeth arnoediad.

If I may ask, what Tolkienian source notes 5,000?

I found this number on Das Internet, but there it was a Reader's estimation [based on X and Y
from other texts], and I assume (!) if Tolkien had written a specific number anywhere, there'd be
no estimating needed.

Given this, while I grant I might be forgetting something here, instead of me combing through HOME, I'm just going to be lazy and ask (although technically I already did): where does this number come from?

Anyway, for the thread (from an earlier response I gave in these forums):

The Elves of the Falas are noted in Christopher Tolkien's constructed Silmarillion -- as they are indeed noted in Tolkien's Quenta Silmarillion (HME V) for example, and The Grey Annals (HME XI) as well. "For there all the Noldor of Hithlum were assembled, together with Elves of the Falas and Gwindor's company from Nargothrond . . ." The Silmarillion, Of The Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad

[Círdan is not specifically named as being present, unless I missed some mention here.]

 

[Turin_Turambar]

If I may ask, what Tolkienian source notes 5,000?

I found this number on Das Internet, but there it was a Reader's estimation [based on X and Y
from other texts], and I assume (!) if Tolkien had written a specific number anywhere, there'd be
no estimating needed.

Given this, while I grant I might be forgetting something here, instead of me combing through HOME, I'm just going to be lazy and ask (although technically I already did): where does this number come from?

And in response to your [Turin] earlier thread [titled: Were there also falas elves and cirdan nirnaeth arnoediad?],
I dared to write:

"The Elves of the Falas are noted in Christopher Tolkien's constructed Silmarillion -- as they are indeed noted in Tolkien's Quenta Silmarillion (HME V) for example, and The Grey Annals (HME XI) as well. "For there all the Noldor of Hithlum were assembled, together with Elves of the Falas and Gwindor's company from Nargothrond . . ." The Silmarillion, Of The Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad

[Círdan is not specifically named as being present, unless I missed some mention here.]"

And this tells me I probably checked three sources, but I didn't write any number at this time, in any case.

But cirdan will not leave the falas elves alone in such an important war. probably cirdan joined the war too.

Ouch, that was a bit harsh. Perhaps include the citation for where the information is found, and use a little different approach.
Where do we find that information sir Turin_Turambar? I'm doing a quick little bit of research on this... thanks.

Nírnaeth Arnoediad

Wars of Beleriand First Battle

en-academic.com

Ah - I did not indeed! Thank you though. I suppose I shall have to read more...

Nírnaeth Arnoediad

Wars of Beleriand First Battle

en-academic.com

 

[Elthir]

But cirdan will not leave the falas elves alone in such an important war. probably cirdan joined the war too.

I merely noted that Cirdan is not mentioned in the three sources I listed.

And my question concerned the source for the number 5,000. The Tolkien-written source.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Nírnaeth Arnoediad

Wars of Beleriand First Battle

en-academic.com

Thank you!

I used to find the Dagor Bragollach more interesting than Nirnaeth Arnoediad after I first read that part of The Silmarillion - now, I find it to be the other way around...

 

[Turin_Turambar]

I merely noted that Cirdan is not mentioned in the three sources I listed.

And my question concerned the source for the number 5,000. The Tolkien-written source.

I don't know if Tolkien wrote the number 5000 or if it's a guess. But in any case, the falas elves joined the battle. Also, even if cirdan is not mentioned, it does not mean that he is not at war. Because as I said, cirdan does not leave his warriors alone.

 

[Elthir]

I don't know if Tolkien wrote the number 5000 or if it's a guess. But in any case, the falas elves joined the battle. Also, even if cirdan is not mentioned, it does not mean that he is not at war. Because as I said, cirdan does not leave his warriors alone.

Okay, so, you don't have a Tolkien-written source for the 5,000.

And I did not say that if Cirdan is not mentioned it means he is not there.

I said he is not mentioned

 

[Ent]

Thwacking this one to S-eS and the "Great Halls", meself. Thanks much.

 

[Elthir]

Turin, back in Dec. 2021 you responded to me posting this same information, with: "I think if there are falas elves, there is definitely cirdan. Why would cirdan send his falas elves alone?

So yes, I know your opinion about this already

And no problem, you're allowed to repeat it here obviously. All I'm trying to point out is that I'm not arguing with you -- not here or there (back then) -- by posting the simple information that Cirdan
is not noted in the text.

Have fun, yes. As for me, I'm not really giving an opinion either way. So far

Thwack reminded me of . . .

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Thwack reminded me of . . .

That's going to hurt - at least in hróa, if not in féa also...

That guy's going to be shedding Tears Unnumbered in a Moment...

 

[Ent]

It may be thus.
Yet maybe not so.
Would Cirdan leave them?
We just can't know.

The text unclear,
no certainty there,
we cannot expect
agreement to share.

There may have been
a much greater need
that Cirdan needed
to himself heed.

For Lords we know
see to many calls
and we just can't tell
what here befalls.

Try as we might
a decision to make
there cannot here be
a finale' to take.

Thus to Great Halls
where opinions go
it seems this question
must surely flow.

(sorry, this one just struck me and I had to get it out.)

 

[Ent]

Thwack reminded me of . . .

Indeed. This looks SO MUCH Like exactly what would happen to an Ent trying to serve the ball..!! (I have experience..!!)

 

[Elthir]

Have fun, yes. As for me, I'm not really giving an opinion either way. So far

Ando here: Oh go out on a limb once in a while Elthir . . . or whatever your name is . . .

I mean . . . what can happen?
warning Sir Enting, you might want to avert your eyes!
.
.
.

 

[Áramandë Amaniel]

Is his féa in peace?

 

[Erestor Arcamen]

Is his féa in peace?

Might be in pieces...

 

[Ent]

Indeed, exactly what Yavanna was concerned about. People with no respect for trees..! 😁