Did Frodo's past ownership endanger the Ring's quest?

[arivista]

The books make it quite clear the Ring had dominated Frodo more and more, when he was getting closer to Mordor. Eventually he was totally under its power in Sammath Naur.

But Frodo already owned the Ring for 17 years, if I am not mistaken. To what degree that time contributed to his eventual complete yielding to the Ring's dominion? What if the Elrond's Council gave the Ring to Sam? Would he yield to the power of the Ring equally fast if he bore the Ring from Rivendell to Mordor? Or would he have kept some of his willpower to throw the Ring into the fire on his own, albeit with struggle? In other words, is the lenght of ownership relatively immaterial compared to the closeness to the furnaces where it was created, when it comes to Ring's power over an individual?

(Let's ignore for now the fact it was Frodo's destiny to be the Ring Bearer - we are not debating, whether Sam or other Hobbit would be able to finish the task, but whether they would or would not be able to resist the power of the Ring a little longer, if they walked in Frodo's footsteps.)

It seems kind of strange, that neither Gandalf nor Elrond at least briefly considered, what influence those 17 year might have had on Frodo, whether it did not jeopardize the mission, despite his general Hobbit endurace. (Plus his nazgul wound didn't help either, I guess?) Or they didn't know the Ring's power over Frodo will grow with closing distance? Or did they just think it wouldn't develop so fast? Or did they know it very well, but it was a part of their gamble? ("Lets hope Frodo will reach Mordor fast just enough to keep at least some remains of willpower to complete his task."...?)

I would like to hear your opinion.

 

[Olorgando]

Tom Shippey made a point in his book "The Road to Middle-earth" (2003 3rd edition) that a lot of people missed (including PJ & Co.): the One Ring is addictive. So besides length of possession - 478 years for Gollum, 60 years for Bilbo, 17 years and a bit for Frodo - frequency of (ab-)use matters.
Gollum had certainly changed drastically from the appearance of a Hobbit, and had (in the end) lived longer than Elros. But both Gollum and Bilbo stayed well away from Mount Doom while in possession of the One Ring. But what is not entirely clear to is: was it the effect of Mount Doom, or the proximity of Sauron in Barad-dûr? Would it have had the same effect on someone while Sauron had been in Dol Guldur? There is Isildur's refusal to throw the One Ring into the lava at the Cracks of Doom just after cutting it off Sauron's finger at the end of the Second Age, yes, but he was royalty with his brain addled by such useless concepts as weregild.

 

[arivista]

There are two lines in RoTK I find particularly relevant:

His thought turned to the Ring, but there was no comfort there, only dread and danger. No sooner had he come in sight of Mount Doom, burning far away, than he was aware of a change in his burden. As it drew near the great furnaces where, in the deeps of time, it had been shaped and forged, the Ring's power grew, and it became more fell, untameable save by some mighty will.

(Just for the record - "untameable" power here does not mean "irresistible". Sam was able to resist the temptation at this point by choosing to ignoring it, but he knew he would not be able to master the Ring.)

At first he could see nothing. In his great need he drew out once more the phial of Galadriel, but it was pale and cold in his trembling hand and threw no light into that stifling dark. He was come to the heart of the realm of Sauron and the forges of his ancient might, greatest in Middle-earth; all other powers were here subdued.

So I take it there is special power in the Mount Doom itself, not just in its proximity to Sauron at the time.

I don't doubt lenght of ownership and frequency of use is a factor not to be underestimated. I don't doubt Bilbo would not have been able to resist the temptation as long as Frodo did. In the Rivendell Frodo was still relatively unaffected by the Ring. But would it make any difference (in respect of how much willpower would he retain in Sammath Naur), if they started the quest some years earlier, with even less influence?

I somehow feel if Frodo gave the Ring to Sam in the last few days as Sam asked, Sam would have been able to destroy the Ring on his own will, despite all the power of the "heart of the realm of Sauron". But I am not sure if that's the case if he carried the Ring all the way from Rivendell.

 

[d4rk3lf]

Good question.
I'd say: both.
Although, in Frodo case, I think his getting closer to Mount Doom contributed more for ring dominance, then time of Frodo ownership of the ring (that is pretty short, and he was not using it often, and hobbits are very resistant to ring).

I'd add third component: Sauron awakening.
I think ring was much more active once Sauron took his form again, then in time when Gollum found it, or before it.
But also, it might be possible that ring was very influential, when Isildur posseted it, because it was such a short time from Sauron fall.

 

[BalrogRingDestroyer]

Tom Shippey made a point in his book "The Road to Middle-earth" (2003 3rd edition) that a lot of people missed (including PJ & Co.): the One Ring is addictive. So besides length of possession - 478 years for Gollum, 60 years for Bilbo, 17 years and a bit for Frodo - frequency of (ab-)use matters.
Gollum had certainly changed drastically from the appearance of a Hobbit, and had (in the end) lived longer than Elros. But both Gollum and Bilbo stayed well away from Mount Doom while in possession of the One Ring. But what is not entirely clear to is: was it the effect of Mount Doom, or the proximity of Sauron in Barad-dûr? Would it have had the same effect on someone while Sauron had been in Dol Guldur? There is Isildur's refusal to throw the One Ring into the lava at the Cracks of Doom just after cutting it off Sauron's finger at the end of the Second Age, yes, but he was royalty with his brain addled by such useless concepts as weregild.

If using it matters, does that mean that if he hadn't worn it in Bree or at Weathertop or after the Boromir incident, that he could have thrown into the fire on his own?

Tom Shippey made a point in his book "The Road to Middle-earth" (2003 3rd edition) that a lot of people missed (including PJ & Co.): the One Ring is addictive. So besides length of possession - 478 years for Gollum, 60 years for Bilbo, 17 years and a bit for Frodo - frequency of (ab-)use matters.
Gollum had certainly changed drastically from the appearance of a Hobbit, and had (in the end) lived longer than Elros. But both Gollum and Bilbo stayed well away from Mount Doom while in possession of the One Ring. But what is not entirely clear to is: was it the effect of Mount Doom, or the proximity of Sauron in Barad-dûr? Would it have had the same effect on someone while Sauron had been in Dol Guldur? There is Isildur's refusal to throw the One Ring into the lava at the Cracks of Doom just after cutting it off Sauron's finger at the end of the Second Age, yes, but he was royalty with his brain addled by such useless concepts as weregild.

Considering that Bilbo was wearing the Ring in Mirkwood some hundred miles from Dol Guldur, where Sauron was, and that Sam was wearing the Ring into Mordor itself, some 100 or so miles only from Sauron, if that, and neither of them caved, proximity to Sauron alone doesn't seem to matter.

 

[Valandil]

Clearly, halving the distance is equivalent to doubling the time!

 

[Aramarien]

Boromir was tempted by the Ring, most notably after he was in Lothlorien, most likely when Galadriel looked into the hearts of the Fellowship and Boromir realized the depths of his desire.
I'm sure the length of time of possession does have huge influence over the possessor, especially in the case of the Hobbits. Even Frodo was reluctant to throw the Ring in his own hearth at Bag End when Gandalf prompted him to try to destroy it. The Ring seems to take a hold on the person who is possessing it immediately, but as Gandalf said, ..... Yes, sooner or later - later, if he is strong or well -meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last -sooner or later the Dark Power will devour him." Gandalf said of Bilbo, " Of course he possessed the Ring for many years, and used ti, so it might take a long while for the influence to wear off...."
As for the dominance of the Ring? When Sauron awoke, he exerted his power to find the Ring, which made the Ring more powerful. But Tolkien had said in his Letters that the Ring was at the height of its power at the Crack of Doom and NO mortal could resist it at that point. So even Sam just possessing it for a short while would not be able to destroy it alone.
Most likely it was the combination of the influence of Mt Doom and having Sauron so near by that increased the Ring's power

As I'm writing this, I wonder what would have happened if Gollum did not show up and knock Sam out. If Sam was standing next to Frodo before Frodo claimed the Ring. Could Sam have convinced Frodo to throw the Ring in? Could anyone have convinced him? Most likely not.