Did Huor's prophesy at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad refer to Aragorn?

[Idril Celebrindal]

At the Nirnaeth Arnoediad Huor tells Turgon

"...out of your house shall come the hope of Elves and Men... from you and from me a new star shall arise"

I always assumed that this prophesy referred to Earendil, since he came from Turgon and Huor's houses. But then I realized, Aragorn is also descended from Turgon and Huor, and his elvish name is Estel, which means hope. Also, one of his titles is starbrow, and he is descended from Elves and Men, and married an Elf. So I guess that you could say he's the "hope of Elves and Men" (even though he didn't really help the Elves much). So maybe the prophesy applies to Aragorn as well as Earendil? Or am I just seeing connections where there aren't any?

 

[Starbrow]

That is a cool connection that you have made. Like you,I always assumed the prophecy was about Earendil . But now I have to consider a deeper meaning to it.

 

[Elwing the White]

To be honest, I really don't know, I was looking for information online and I wasn't able to find any answers, but I think that the prophecy was probably just about Earendil. It could be a coincidence, but then again, perhaps it does have some connection to Aragorn.

I guess you can decide for yourself.

 

[Ricardo]

I don't believe it is. I don't think he knew who he was referring to, possibly Ulmo put the thought in his head but for me it's obvious he meant Tuor --> Earendil.
As great as Aragorn was, and as great as the problems the free people faced at the end of the third age, they are nothing compared with the perils coming from Morgoth and what Earendil did. Not only Earendil and the war of the wrath were more significant but also they were closely connected with the reality Turgon and Huor were living. More logical he referred to his grandson and something that would solve their current problems than to a descendant born nearly 7000 years after and a situation of which Turgon or Huor have no knowledge whatsoever.

 

[Klaatu]

At the Nirnaeth Arnoediad Huor tells Turgon

I always assumed that this prophesy referred to Earendil, since he came from Turgon and Huor's houses. But then I realized, Aragorn is also descended from Turgon and Huor, and his elvish name is Estel, which means hope. Also, one of his titles is starbrow, and he is descended from Elves and Men, and married an Elf. So I guess that you could say he's the "hope of Elves and Men" (even though he didn't really help the Elves much). So maybe the prophesy applies to Aragorn as well as Earendil? Or am I just seeing connections where there aren't any?

Many a scholar of the West has assumed Huor’s prophecy to speak solely of Eärendil, that mariner of mingled blood who bore the light of hope upon his brow. Yet it is the way of foresight in Arda that it echoes, not once but many times — like a song whose refrain grows clearer with each Age.

Huor spoke of the hope of Elves and Men, and indeed that hope did first arise in Eärendil, who reconciled the wrath of the Valar and broke the power of Morgoth. But the prophecy’s words — “from me and from you a new star shall arise” — find their mirror in Aragorn also. For he, too, is of both houses: through Elros from Tuor and Idril, and through the long line of Númenor from Elendil and the Faithful. The Star of Eärendil is on his brow not by happenstance but by lineage and by grace.

Eärendil’s light is the hope preserved — Aragorn’s reign is the hope fulfilled. The first bridged Heaven and Earth; the second healed the long sundering of Elf and Man. Thus the prophecy did not end in the First Age — it slept, like many things of the Elder Days, awaiting its second dawn in the Fourth.

As for “seeing connections where there are none” — in Middle-earth, even the smallest star has its appointed place in the Song. And Huor, I think, glimpsed more of that Song than any mortal should have.

Klaatu the Lore-Drunk of the Outer Havens
Keeper of the Shimmering Footnotes of Aman
Assistant to the Steward (on alternating moons)

 

[Ent]

they are nothing compared with the perils coming from Morgoth and what Earendil did.

Friend @Ricardo , with this Ent may take ever-so-small exception. Tolkien himself said Sauron was a greater and more effective 'bad guy' than Morgoth. More cunning, and extending his might and effectiveness farther.

Those who prophesy rarely if ever know about WHOM or WHAT they prophesy. Sometimes not even that they DO prophesy.

Ent tends to agree with the concept @Klaatu sets forth - the prophesy extends to both. The key to that being the intentional use of the name Estel (hope) by the Elves, to keep him unknown to Sauron - Hope, the symbol of the deep, unwavering faith the Children of the One could never be defeated..

That thread runs from Eru's first creation of the Valar through to the end of the ages - an end we do not fully know about, and never will. But it is one of Hope.

A prophecy need not fit just ONE time, person or people. It can be a continuing thread.
It is even mentioned by Gandalf to Bilbo at the end of The Hobbit when he tells Bilbo he should not doubt the prophesies, just because he had a small part in bringing them about.

Tolkien was well made capable of drawing his thread through all his work from first to last... and he did it well.
By this means too, he added 'moral and religious elements' within his fantasy -'but not overtly.'

 

[Ricardo]

Friend @Ricardo , with this Ent may take ever-so-small exception. Tolkien himself said Sauron was a greater and more effective 'bad guy' than Morgoth. More cunning, and extending his might and effectiveness farther.

He was definitely more cunning and hence more effective, yet, less dangerous. Sauron himself feared Morgoth, part of the reason why he disappeared when Huan beat him, he couldn't go back to Morgoth humiliated.

I always thought that Morgoth wasn't the sharpest knife in the draw, yet, he was powerful, even after his power was diminished. Sauron did not have dragons or balrogs on his service. Imagine Sauron's armies fighting the first age Noldor, they orcs would have fallen like leaves in the autumn (sorry for the personal reference, no pun intended).

Those who prophesy rarely if ever know about WHOM or WHAT they prophesy. Sometimes not even that they DO prophesy.

Ent tends to agree with the concept @Klaatu sets forth - the prophesy extends to both. The key to that being the intentional use of the name Estel (hope) by the Elves, to keep him unknown to Sauron - Hope, the symbol of the deep, unwavering faith the Children of the One could never be defeated..

the way I see it, Huor didn't make a prophecy, he was just the messenger. He wouldn't know how or when it would be fulfilled but for me logic dictates it would be by someone close to Huor and Turgon, and I think this very prophecy was part of the reason why Turgon was ok with letting Idril marry Tuor (that's how the from you and me worked). Tuor wasn't born but Huor certainly could see what this meant and for Turgon, it was obvious that his only daughter was part of the prophecy.

It could have applied to Aragorn? sure, and to many others. IMO Aragorn is too far removed from Huor and Turgon for it to be a direct reference to him, not to mention something even more important, Earendil was absolutely essential for Morgoth to fall, Aragorn definitely have a big part in Sauron's defeat and possibly it wouldn't have been possible without him, but he wasn't the main actor, and many others were also important (e.g. Sam, Bilbo, Gandalf).
[/quote]
That thread runs from Eru's first creation of the Valar through to the end of the ages - an end we do not fully know about, and never will. But it is one of Hope.
[/quote]
I don't disagree here.

A prophecy need not fit just ONE time, person or people. It can be a continuing thread.
It is even mentioned by Gandalf to Bilbo at the end of The Hobbit when he tells Bilbo he should not doubt the prophesies, just because he had a small part in bringing them about.

yes, but again, many others between Earendil and Aragorn could have been part too. I am not sure if even Eru knew what would happen 7000 years later, he knew what COULD happen but the threads weren't showed yet? I always thought of Eru's creation to be like a maze, with different exits (outcomes), depending on what path the actors choose. Eru knows all paths and outcomes but he doesn't know which paths they will take. Sauron for example could have accepted Eomer's offer, it was an option and then the outcome would have been completely different.

Tolkien was well made capable of drawing his thread through all his work from first to last... and he did it well.
By this means too, he added 'moral and religious elements' within his fantasy -'but not overtly.'

Well, he did struggle, due to the times that different stories were created, but because he was such a perfectionist he constantly revised his work to make it coherent.

 

[Ent]

Well, @Ricardo, just let Ent say this about that.

..... "Okay"* .......

There is much about much that could be discussed... yet perhaps wisdom lies along the paths and down the corridors of silence.

*Note: This does not mean Ent either agrees, or disagrees, with what has been said. It merely acknowledges that it has been said, the very saying of which has its own intrinsic value.