Did 🧙Saruman make the same mistake as 👁️Sauron?

[celebrimbor of eregion]

Hi this is my first post here! ive been reading a lot of the forums o here and love how much every enjoys middle earth so i thought id join you lot. Now my first ever question on here is, does Saruman attack Rohan way too early?

The reason i ask this is because saruman attacks rohan at a strange time, his intial band of uruk-hai fail to deliver the halflings. Now if i remember rightly it is said the news of ugluks failure and death will never reach the ears of saruman, yet as they hadn't returned one would think that a wise guy like saruman would realise that the horse-lords have dealt with them. Now losing the halflings and his influence in Rohan waning thanks to the return of gandalf, eomer making crucial decisions Saruman then goes and plays the strangest play i have seen, he attack helms deep with his entire force, now im a huge fan of Saruman he was a cool wizard but he rated himself too highly. If Saruman hadn't attacked so early, Gandalf and the others would not be able to enter isengard nor would it be sacked by the ents, which means gandalf can't break his staff which means saruman remains a powerful threat to middle earth, yet thinking he is the new sauron throws his all without thinking. Rant over

thoughts?

 

[celebrimbor of eregion]

No reply, hmmm

 

[Matthew Bailey01]

It is a theme of Tolkien that evil suffers most greatly from the sin of Pride, and thus tends to rush toward their objectives prematurely in that Pride.

Both Sauron and Saruman suffered from this.

Both were also Maia of Aulë, and their trust in their own cleverness tended to be their undoing.


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!

 

[PaigeSinclaire88]

It is a theme of Tolkien that evil suffers most greatly from the sin of Pride, and thus tends to rush toward their objectives prematurely in that Pride.

Both Sauron and Saruman suffered from this.

Both were also Maia of Aulë, and their trust in their own cleverness tended to be their undoing.


I obviously take Middle-earth too seriously!

Haha well, I agree with him, I too take Middle Earth seriously.

And I do agree that the evil in Tolkiens world does suffer very much from pride, as in pride leads to them to believe they are invincible and cannot lose or be hurt. But it's in this notion that makes them fail as a result which is ironic but I believe this is meant to be ironic on purpose.

Both Sauron and Saruman suffer greatly from thinking that they could not lose and as a result they do lose. Tolkien has a theme of driving home the point of pride being a carnal sin in the land of middle earth, and thats because during the struggle for middle earth the fight to restore it to it's greatness it must be fallen by some sort of sin. As Tolkien was a religious man and a man of the day of WWII and WWI, so it makes sense that after seeing war and being a religious man that through his eyes it must have been Pride that caused both wars. Remember, WWI was started because of an assassination. And the pride of Hitler caused many deaths an genocide...which led to WWII and one could argue that it was pride that linked the two.

Side note: I'm obsessed with WWII and anything Tolkien, and theology I could talk for days lol