🧝Elrond, Elros and Aragorn

Ithrynluin · Mar 10, 2005

angnor said:
And how did she get to Valinor? There's another feat no other purely Sindarin elf even attempted.

Are you referring to when Luthien made her plea before Mandos and moved him to pity? If so, she arrived there in the same way any other elven fëa (meaning 'spirit') got there, and that certainly isn't a physical voyage, so Luthien's spirit reaching Mandos is nothing extraordinary. Her moving Mandos the unmoved to pity, however, is something wholly different.

angnor said:
It's also possible that at the time of the War of Wrath, when Elros and Elrond are given their choices, that whatever grace or power they may have inherited from their maia ancestry is taken away and they are changed and locked by their choices.

I see no reason why part of their heritage would just be 'taken away' from them. Elrond was mighty among Elves and Men, and some of his innate powers would be due to his Maiaric heritage.

Alcuin · Mar 10, 2005

Through Arnor, Aragorn II is 67 generations descended from Melian. That would be Melian (generation 0), Lúthien (generation 1), Dior, Elwing, 4 Kings of Númenor, Silmariën, 18 Lords of Andúnië, 2 High Kings of the Dúnedain, 8 Kings of Arnor, 15 Kings of Arthedain, 15 Chieftains of the Dúnedain, and finally one restored High King of the Dúnedain, Aragorn II Elessar. By this lineage alone, the amount of “Maia” in Aragorn would be 1 divided by 2 to the 67th power. (2 to the 67th power is more than 295 followed by 18 zeros.) In other words, the amount of “Maia” would be minuscule.

However, there is no way we can account for intermarriage, which would slow the diminution of inheritance. The children of two people who are 1/128 Maia (or Cherokee, or English, or Japanese, or Martian, or – you pick; 1/128 indicates 7th generation of descent, or 1 divided by 2 to the 7th power) are also 1/128 Maia. For example, the children of two half-elves are also half-elves. We can’t account for it because we don’t know how much intermarriage there was, but it had to be very important. (Aragorn’s parents, for instance, were both descendants of the first Chieftain of the Dúnedain, Aranarth. We know King Ar-Gimilzôr of Númenor married a daughter of the sixteenth Lord of Andúnië, who was the heir of Valandil son of Silmariën, and the direct ancestor of Elendil; and there is no reason to think that was the only intermarriage between the two families in some 20 generations. Aragorn was also a descendant of Anárion because King Arvedui of Arnor married Fíriel, the daughter of King Ondoher of Gondor, which was the basis of Arvedui‘s claim for the throne of Gondor. Aragorn did not claim the throne through Fíriel, but rather through Elendil and Isildur, but that has to be another string.)

The point is not how much “Maia” blood flowed in Aragorn’s veins. The point is that he was the descendent of Lúthien, of Elros, of Elendil, of Isildur, of Valandil, and that Lúthien’s blood did flow in his veins. In Japan, the Emperor is presumed to be the descendent of the sun goddess, Amateratsu. Queen Elizabeth II can trace her lineage to King Alfred; Alfred could trace his to Cerdic, founder of the kingdom of Wessex; and Cerdic in turn traced his to the pagan gods of his forefathers. It isn’t the degree of Aragorn’s descent that counts, it is rather that he is descended from Lúthien, and that he is the rightful heir of Elendil. That rightful claim meant that when he entered Rohan and was challenged by Éomer and his Riders, the first people he met after he crossed the old borders of Gondor with the intention of claiming its throne, he proclaimed himself “the heir of Isildur Elendil’s son of Gondor,” and Legolas saw “that a white flame flickered on the brows of Aragorn like a shining crown.”

Two last points. First, as best I can recall, Aragorn never claimed to be the descendant of Melian; he claimed to be the descendant of Lúthien, who with his forefather Beren wrested the Silmaril from Morgoth’s iron crown. (You claim your most famous ancestor, and that was Lúthien.)

Second, if you’re still counting, Arwen was 1/16 Maia, and her marriage with Aragon meant that Eldarion their son was something north of 1/32. (Don’t forget those intermarriages!)

Greenwood · Mar 11, 2005

Alcuin,

Now that was imprerssive!

Masso · Mar 21, 2005

angnor said:
If you think about it, how much elven or maia blood is really left when you get to Aragorn? Elrond and Elros are only 1/16 Maia by blood. By the time you get to the 11th king of Numenor (Tar-minastir) you have somoene with only 1/16384 maia blood. And Elendil is of the sam generation as Ar-Pharazon, the 25th king!! Their elven blood is only slightly thicker at this point (9 times as much, or 9/16384). And every generation is cutting each one of those in hafl, until Aragorn marries Arwen.

Fun to work out, but for all intents and purposes, Aragorn is just a man (a Dunedain though...).

Elrond and Elros (assuming an even contribution from each of their forebears) are 3/8 Edain, 9/16 Elf, and 1/16 Maia. Shall we call them the slightly-more-than-half-elven?

angnor thanks for the maths and all the numbers they are fairly confusing to me though but i get it

🧝Elrond, Elros and Aragorn

Ithrynluin

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Alcuin

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Greenwood

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Masso

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🧝Elrond, Elros and Aragorn

Ithrynluin

seeker of solace

Alcuin

of Zarkanya

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The Guild of Ost-in-Edhil

Masso

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