Fiery ⚔️battle in Cool waters?

[Maedhros]

From the Book of Lost Tales II: The Fall of Gondolin

Tuor stood then in the way of that beast, but was sundered from Egalmoth, and they pressed him backward even to the centre of the square nigh the fountain. There he became weary from the strangling heat and was beaten down by a great demon, even Gothmog lord of Balrogs, son of Melko. But lo! Ecthelion, whose face was of the pallor of grey steel and whose shield-arm hung limp at his side, strode above him as he fell; and that Gnome drave at the demon, yet did not give him his death, getting rather a wound to his sword-arm that his weapon left his grasp. Then leapt Ecthelion lord of the Fountain, fairest of the Noldoli, full at Gothmog even as he raised his whip, and his helm that had a spike upon it he drave into that evil breast, and he twined his legs about his foeman's thighs; and the Balrog yelled and fell forward; but those two dropped into the basin of the king's fountain which was very deep. There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.

I have always thougth that when Echtelion and Gothmog fell in basin of the King's fountain they died inmediately, but the last phrase, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters., makes me wonder about that. Did they kept fighting after they feel in there, just like Gandalf and the Balrog did in the depths of Moria?
Che pensi tu?

 

[Ithrynluin]

It is interesting to see how history repeats itself. In both cases (Ecthelion vs Gothmog, Gandalf vs Balrog) the final stages of the battle took place underwater. Is that just a coincidence? Maybe Balrogs like to "cool off" a little before they die, seeing how they're so hot and fiery all their lives? Just being silly, of course

I'm also pondering about the fountain itself. What purpose did it serve? Was it a source of drinking water to the Gondolindrim, or was it merely decorational? How deep was it?

 

[Feanorian]

It seems that Gothmog was dead when they fell into the fountain together because he had been spiked by Etchelion's helm, and thus fell onto to Etchelion. He would probably have fallen forward pushing both of them down and Etchelion was not able to come back to the top because he was clad in all his armor and had Gothmog's dead carcass on him so he drowned after his battle with the fiery balrog in the cool waters of Gondolin...I have not read that account of the fall of Gondolin(recently bought BoLT I and II so will be there soon) so that is just a guess.

 

[Ithrynluin]

But it does say after fiery battle in cool waters, so they can't have been dead...heavily wounded perhaps, but not dead IMHO.

 

[Feanorian]

but those two dropped into the basin of the king's fountain which was very deep. There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.

It seems to me that Gothmog may not have been dead right when they fell in but was certainly very near death having been spiked in the upper chest. I think when it says "in cool waters" it is referring to his death after a fiery battle. If you look at it says "and so perished the lord of the Fountainafter fiery battle in cool waters." To me it makes it seem that he died after his fiery battle in cool waters thus showing that he drowned by the weight of Gothmog and all of his steel.

 

[Nenya Evenstar]

I'd agree with Feanorian that Gothmog was dead or very near dead when falling into the waters.

I see the quote and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters as a sort of literary touch. We get the idea that it was very hot and that fighting the Balrog must have been torchure, though obviously Ecthelion withstood it well. However, I think that the last part is a touch to show opposites: Ecthelion, after a terrible, burning fight, died in the cool waters. It must have felt wonderful to be plunged into those waters after that fight . . . it is actually a very sweet touch to add to the bitterness of Ecthelion's death.

 

[Maedhros]

I don't see why went JRRT says, and that creature found his bane, it means that it was Ecthelion of the Fountains and not necessarily his death.

 

[Elfarmari]

Bringing up an old thread:

There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.

The phrases are separate: The Balrog found his bane, and Ecthelion sank etc.

I think this would imply that the Ecthelion continued fighting the Balrog, killing him, and then laden down by this armor perished in the fountain.

 

[Aulë]

The Fall of Gondolin
There found that creature his bane; and Ecthelion sank steel-laden into the depths, and so perished the lord of the Fountain after fiery battle in cool waters.

I agree with Nenya, in that it means that Ecthelion 'perished in cool water' after fighting in a 'fiery battle' in the Court.

 

[Isthir]

I too must agree with Nenya, it would seem foolish for it to be otherwise after looking over the writing many a times.Just my two cents, though as of the moment I know not the credibility that you all place into my words.

-Isthir​

 

[Arvedui]

This thread has been moved out of the Guild of Scholar's Hall, and will hopefully be filled with the thoughts of more members.

 

[Inderjit S]

No, I think they died as soon as they entered the fountain i.e their wounds were mortal. The battle in cool water is just a reference to their min-fight which precluded them falling into the fountain.

And how would people know about any battle in the fountain?