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Gothmog on the Pellenor Fields

What was Gothmog?

  • A man similar to the Mouth of Sauron

    Votes: 9 60.0%
  • An orc chieftain

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • One of the Nazgul

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15
Who was Gothmog?

Let's hear some more opinions.

What kind of creature do you think this Gothmog was?
 
This has come up a number of times and I dont think that there is any clear answer. Its possible that he was Nazgul but most people agree thats he was most likely a high ranking human, possibly a Black Numenorian. There is no way that an orc would take control in that size of battle...
 
It would be fitting to call him a Black Númenórean.. But exactly how many of those guys did Sauron employ? For certain we only know the ten Black Númenóreans, as far as the LotR tells us: the Nazgûl and the Mouth. I suppose Sauron might have theoreticaly employed quite a lot of Númenórean sailors and soldiers during their sojourn in Middle-earth, but before I see evidence I'm saying nothing!
ALthough I did already vote Mouth of Sauron- type dude, but anyway..
 
I also think he may have been a Black Numenorean. Plainly, they were skilled in Quenya+Sindarin, hence the name Herumor as one of the Black Numenoreans whose name was Quenya for 'Dark Lord' and 'Gothmog' was Sindarin, though the actual name was of uncertain meaning. (I believe in the 'Fall of Gondolin' it was interpreted as 'voice of Morgoth' though this was early form in which Sindarin etc hadn't been revised. There is no term describing 'mog' , I believe, not even in the Etymoglies of HoME 5, or the Silmarillion. I think that in one of Tolkien's letters (Or in M.T) he comments on Sauron, on his third return, claiming to be Morgoth returned, so if we take 'Gothmog' as meaning 'Voice of Morgoth' it could be an interesting take on him being similar to Mouth of Sauron.
 
hey shut-up your dead


Originally posted by Lantarion
ALthough I did already vote Mouth of Sauron- type dude, but anyway..

startin to sound like someone familiar there Lant
 
Remove that ‘similar to’, Inderjit. I posted this on another board:

Now let’s look at the name Gothmog and what meaning it had when Tolkien was writing The Lord of the Rings and see whether it contains any clues.

The only thing Christopher says about the name in The History of the Lord of the Rings is (not surprisingly) in HoMe VIII: The War of the Ring:
The name Gothmog is one of the original names of the tradition, going back to The Book of Lost Tales; Lord of Balrogs, slayer of Fëanor and Fingon.
So we have to go backwards in the history, to the pre-LOTR writings.

In the Appendix to HoMe V: The Lost Road and Other Writings; section II ‘The List of Names’ Christopher tells us:
During the 1930s my father began the task of making an alphabetic list, with definitions, of all the names in his works concerned with the legends of the Elder Days.
The work is not given in full, but Christopher has included an interesting entry: But he also says:
In the Etymologies the element goth is differently explained in Gothmog (GOS, GOTH) and in Morgoth (KOT, but with a suggestion that the name ‘may also contain GOTH’).
So if the name Gothmog in The Lord of the Rings really means ‘Voice of Morgoth’, why would someone be called (or call himself) that? (Morgoth was, as many know, defeated at the end of the First Age.)

There is one who may have been called Goth at the end of the Third Age.

From letter #183 (a rewriting at some later date of an earlier version, now lost, which was in all probability written in 1956): From a footnote to this passage: So if nothing of this fails, then Gothmog was the ‘voice’ of Sauron. And we know of only one person who could have been that: the Mouth of Sauron (who I believe is Fuinur but that’s another story).
 
I personally believe that everyone is making a bigger deal of Gothmog than he really is. For starters Gothmog is simply a lieutinant of Morgul, not Mordor. I doubt a ring wraith would carry this low rank in a land he helped to conquer, maybe a lieutenant of Mordor but not of Morgul.

Secondly, everyone seems to think that Gothmog has taken control of the entire battlefield and is second in command. But if you read the text correctly

There they had been mustered for the sack of the City and the rape of Gondor, waiting on call of their captain. He was now destroyed; but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray;

It sounds like he was to lead the sack of Gondor, but when he saw that the Captain had fallen and that the battle was going sour for them, he lead his men into battle. He was merely the commander of these specific men not the entire battlefield.

Lastly, if Gothmog really did assume command of the entire army he would certainly have to be second in command. Lieutenant??

It sounds like Gothmog is simply a commander within the Ulairi's army. The really only great thing he accomplished is to move his men to where they were more needed.
 
Who is Gothmog?

Who is Gothmog?

I'm not talking about the Lord of the Balrogs, but the lieutenant or Mordor - he took command of Sauron's forces after the Witch-King fell at the Pelennor. We know he's not a Ringwraith, so what is he? Just a wraith? Or a man? (not a very nice name for your son is it? )
 
Oh cheers Nom! I thought there might be another thread on this somewhere, but I had NO IDEA where to start looking. Thanks
 
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