Durin's Folk in the Grey ⛰️Mountains

[Valandil]

It was some time before I realized that the Dwarves of Durin's Folk were actually at Erebor for only a relatively short time (Middle-Earth wise) before Smaug descended on them, destroying, killing, and driving away.

For millennia - these Dwarves had dwelt in Khazad-Dum, until at last driven out by the appearance and attacks of the Balrog. Afterwards they wandered a bit, before settling at Erebor for the first time. For some reason they left there (I wonder why - perhaps a matter for another thread?), and went north - to Ered Mithrin, the Grey Mountains. They were there until driven out by a cold-drake. They divided at this time - with Thror (the new King, as his father and middle brother were slain by said dragon) taking his people back to Erebor, and his youngest brother, Gror, taking a contingent to the Iron Hills.

Here are key time markers from Appendix B, The Tale of Years (all Third Age):

* 1980 - a Balrog appears in Moria and slays Durin VI (the Dwarves had been there since sometime in the First Age).
* 1981 - Nain I slain. Dwarves flee from Moria (they hung around another year).
* 1999 - Thrain I comes to Erebor and founds a dwarf-kingdom "under the Mountain" (after 18 years wandering).
* 2210 - Thorin I leaves Erebor and goes north to the Grey Mountains, where most of the remnants of Durin's Folk are gathering (had been 211 years at Erebor - did the gathering happen because of Thorin I, or was it happening otherwise and that's why he went?).
* 2589 - Dain I slain by a Dragon (after 379 years in the Grey Mountains - by the next entry, they might have remained for 380 years, OR maybe this event was late in 2589, then they left right away, and arrived early in 2590).
* 2590 - Thror returns to Erebor. Gror his brother goes to the Iron Hills (this makes 380 years after coming to the Grey Mountains).
* 2770 - Smaug the Dragon descents on Erebor. Dale destroyed. Thror escapes with Thrain III and Thorin II (only 180 years after the Dwarves returned to Erebor).

I'll stop there - as the Dwarves become wanderers for a time, fight the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, with many of those displaced eventually going way West to Ered Luin, while Gror's descendants remain in the Iron Hills.

The surprise to me - is that, with all the talk of how marvelous things were at Erebor and Dale before the coming of Smaug, it was only established over a period of 180 years. Under a single King (who went from very young to very old). Altogether, their work at Erebor went on for 391 years - counting the first 211 and the next 180.

And what fires my imagination - is what the Dwarves, undivided - might have done with 380 years at their home in the Grey Mountains! Maybe more, if their people had already been gathering and making a "place". I have tended to think of the Grey Mountains as just a stopping-off point. A cave somewhere in the northern mountains. But... with 380+ years, and the way Dwarves work, and the fact that there were probably more of them than were ever at Erebor - they must have made that place something really special! I wonder what it could have been like.

Any Dwarf fans to take this and run with it?

 

[Valandil]

No responses yet, but I've continued to think about it.

With so many Dwarves present for so many years, I suspect that their home in the Grey Mountains became a fabulous place. Not as grand as Khazad-Dum had been, but probably more so than Erebor.

As far as we can tell - there were no nearby settlements of Men, or Elves, or others - with whom the Dwarves could trade. I think commerce would likely have been much lower. And then the Dwarves might have needed to pay more attention to raising their own food, etc - as they couldn't exchange goods they produced for it.

Of course, this could be explained by simplification on the map. Middle Earth maps show a lot of "white space" - which in many cases, I think, just indicates that these areas were outside of the knowledge or interest of the hobbits who made these records for us. So - there COULD have been roads, towns, waterways, etc - in the area. Of course - it's pretty far north, and even today our populations thin out in the extreme northern lattitudes.

The Ring of the House of Durin. It was in the possession of the Dwarf Kings for their entire time in the Gray Mountains. It drove them to seek treasures. Is it one reason they had left Erebor in year 2210? Did Thorin I think there was more treasure to be had in the far north, than at Erebor? Did the Ring influence his thinking? And also - once they had to leave their Grey Mountain Home - did Thror feel the Ring drawing him back to Erebor in pursuit of treasures yet undiscovered?

The dragon that drove them out of the Grey Mountains is described as a "cold drake" - what do you think that means? I have read some claims that it was simply not fire-breathing. But my first, and lasting impression, is that it actually breathed ice - expelled it anyway, as a "fire-breathing" dragon expels flame. I don't know of any place where Tolkien explicitly says one or the other.

 

[TheRat]

I like to imagine what Gimli and his kin were able to do in the glittering caves. Was Dale founded about the same time, or does it pre-date Erebor?

 

[Valandil]

I like to imagine what Gimli and his kin were able to do in the glittering caves. Was Dale founded about the same time, or does it pre-date Erebor?

My reading is that there was an earlier Lake-Town, probably destroyed by Smaug when he first came. I suspect that Dale was founded (likely by Lake-Town colonists) and grew due to Erebor. Maybe starting with the Dwarves’ first run there from 1999 to 2210, in a lull for nearly 400 years during the Grey Mountain time, then right back at it when the Dwarves returned, up to Smaug’s arrival on the scene.

Yes - the Glittering Caves would have been something indeed. And Rohan had a strong ally on their west. Not that it looked like there would be much further trouble from that direction.