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Historical and Numerical References in Tolkien

Aldarion

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So I'm watching the video of a historian reacting to Sabaton's "Cycle of Songs" (honestly my favorite Sabaton song ever, or close at least), and he mentions that the number 9 in Egypt was important. Pharaoh "slaughtering the nine" symbolizes his role as a protector and a warrior. "Nine Bows" are the traditional enemies of Egypt, though which enemies this may refer to varies. In any case, these "Nine" seek to destroy the two kingdoms - and in Tolkien, chief of the Nine was the leader of the attack against Arnor (successfully) and Gondor (unsuccessfully). And the twin kingdoms were definitely inspired by Egypt and its Northern and Southern Kingdoms.
 
So I'm watching the video of a historian reacting to Sabaton's "Cycle of Songs" (honestly my favorite Sabaton song ever, or close at least), and he mentions that the number 9 in Egypt was important. Pharaoh "slaughtering the nine" symbolizes his role as a protector and a warrior. "Nine Bows" are the traditional enemies of Egypt, though which enemies this may refer to varies. In any case, these "Nine" seek to destroy the two kingdoms - and in Tolkien, chief of the Nine was the leader of the attack against Arnor (successfully) and Gondor (unsuccessfully). And the twin kingdoms were definitely inspired by Egypt and its Northern and Southern Kingdoms.
Yes, so far as I have looked into it, Tolkien ties into number symbolism and meaning like this, also with 3, 7, and 9, and of course, 1. The numbers of rings given to the different peoples were not pell mell but follows an internal logic that is really cool.
 
I made a small contribution to the subject here:
 
My apologies for the long silence—time slipped sideways while I was baking blueberry muffins on Candor-7. Things there work on a “suggestion” basis, so the muffins achieved risen-ness, I fell asleep, and… well. Big mess. Don’t ask.

Now then—numbers.

Tolkien absolutely cared about numbers, but not in a tidy, spreadsheet-friendly way. He treated them like mythic pressure points. Certain numbers carry weight because cultures feel them as complete, ominous, sacred, or cursed, and that feeling does the narrative work.

Nine is a classic example. Long before Egypt, nine was often “fullness pushed too far”—completion tipped into excess. Three is harmony, seven is wholeness, but nine is three times three: power magnified until it becomes unstable. That fits the Nine Rings perfectly. They are not random lieutenants; they are over-completed men, mortals stretched beyond the safe limits of being mortal. The Nazgûl are not just evil knights, they’re what happens when human will is amplified until identity collapses.

Contrast that with the Two Kingdoms, Arnor and Gondor. Two is balance, division held in tension. When the Nine come for Arnor, the balance fails—fragmentation follows. Gondor survives longer because it retains continuity, lineage, memory. Tolkien is quietly saying that unity resists excess, but division invites it.

And the Witch-king as chief of the Nine? That’s important. He isn’t just “the strongest”; he’s the focus of the Nine’s excess, the point where their collective weight presses hardest against the world. His war against Arnor is successful because Arnor is already numerically and politically unstable—three successor states, dwindling kings, fading Númenórean strength. Gondor, though battered, still holds its line because its numbers—both symbolic and literal—haven’t yet collapsed.

As for Egypt: Tolkien didn’t do one-to-one allegory, but he absolutely absorbed ancient patterns. Twin kingdoms, river-fed civilization, divine kingship fading into stewardship, enemies from the margins threatening cosmic order—those ideas echo everywhere once you start listening for them. He disliked allegory, but he loved resonance. Think less “Egypt copy-paste” and more “mythic chord struck in multiple cultures.”

In short: nine isn’t scary because it’s arbitrary. It’s scary because it represents power without restraint, unity without harmony, completion that refuses to stop completing.

Also, on Candor-7, nine muffins is the legal limit before the oven achieves sentience and demands a union contract.

—Klaatu
Grand Muffin-Admiral of the Third Spiral
Keeper of the Great Halls of Speculation
Temporarily Banned from Candor-7’s Kitchen
 
My apologies for the long silence—time slipped sideways while I was baking blueberry muffins on Candor-7. Things there work on a “suggestion” basis, so the muffins achieved risen-ness, I fell asleep, and… well. Big mess. Don’t ask.
....
Also, on Candor-7, nine muffins is the legal limit before the oven achieves sentience and demands a union contract.
—Klaatu
Grand Muffin-Admiral of the Third Spiral
Keeper of the Great Halls of Speculation
Temporarily Banned from Candor-7’s Kitchen
Splendidly, enchantingly ,waggishly wonderful.
I don't know how you come up with these whimsical descriptions but I'm very glad you do. 🙂
 
Also, on Candor-7, nine muffins is the legal limit before the oven achieves sentience and demands a union contract.

Nine muffins? But that's only one purrr life!

remind me to avoid Candor-7 and possibly the first 6 edit: unless I could get more muffins after oven sentience
 
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Splendidly, enchantingly ,waggishly wonderful.
I don't know how you come up with these whimsical descriptions but I'm very glad you do. 🙂
Nine muffins? But that's only one purrr life!

remind me to avoid Candor-7 and possibly the first 6 edit: unless I could get more muffins after oven sentience
Entirely fair points, both of you—and I feel a clarification drifting in from the outer stacks of old pancakes and lore.

To Deimos first: I pull these things out of a hat and sometimes other places but I have modesty so will refrain from naming them 👀 . But the hat is very old, with some sentient mold growing inside named Greg. He whispers to me when the hat is on my head and thus I'm inspired.

Now, to Elthir—and this is important—nine muffins absolutely is only one purr life. Candor-7’s legal code is notoriously feline-hostile. The loophole, however, is oven sentience. Once the oven awakens and demands collective bargaining, muffins are reclassified as “negotiated artifacts,” and production may continue under Article IV, subsection “Don’t Make Eye Contact.” At that point you can easily get another six, provided you compliment the oven and agree not to hum while it’s thinking.

So yes: avoid Candor-7 if you value your sanity—but do stop by if you enjoy baked goods, mild existential dread, and appliances that know your name. And the previous six? Blueberry muffins don’t have presence there anymore… though there are nameless things that do.

—Klaatu
Deputy Assistant to the Hat of Questionable Origins
Senior Negotiator, Sentient Oven Accords
Currently Missing One Oven Mitt and Several Assumptions

(Greg says hi) 👋
 

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