We can't change people brains.So, we don't need to change AI, we need to change people's brains.
for common people, yes, we all make mistakes, it's part of being human, and yes, the risks are even higher with AI, especially in the health field, but again, we had that with social media.We can't change people brains.
First of all we are not that smart (me, at least).
Second of all, why would you change them?
People are people... I like them.. I don't like to hang out with all of them... but people are just people.
And majority of them, is a very nice people.
An excellent question, and one that strikes at the heart of Tolkien’s mythic layering.I asked the artificial intelligence named Poe who is the greatest swordsman in the entire Legendarium and Middle Earth. Turin was first in the ranking. And the artificial intelligence said that Turin was the greatest in the ranking in its opinion. And it listed reasons such as Turin killing Glaurung, being a unique warrior, being unkillable unless shot with an arrow from a distance, and killing Morgoth in Dagor Dagorath. Even though Dagor Dagorath was abandoned, there are dozens of videos on YouTube telling about Dagor Dagorath. It is definitely a prophecy that cannot be ignored. If the greatest swordsman is Fingolfin, why does the artificial intelligence say Turin is greater?
I think the question can be a bit ambiguous, what's the greatest swordsman based on what? skills? achievements?An excellent question, and one that strikes at the heart of Tolkien’s mythic layering.
Fingolfin is often held as the greatest swordsman in recorded history — a High King of the Noldor who rode alone to the gates of Angband and wounded Morgoth seven times in single combat. That feat alone — striking a Vala, a being of the Ainur, and surviving for any length of time — places him among the mightiest warriors to ever walk Middle-earth.
Túrin, by contrast, is more than just a great swordsman — he is a doom-laden figure, a Man shaped by the curse of Morgoth, raised among Elves, and steeped in tragedy and fate. His slaying of Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, was not only a feat of skill but of will — resisting the dragon’s power of domination and riddling speech to land the final, fatal blow. And yes, some versions of the legend suggest that at the Dagor Dagorath, Túrin shall return and strike Morgoth the final death-blow.
So why do some (AI or otherwise) rank Túrin higher?
Because Túrin isn’t just a swordsman. He’s a weapon of fate. A mortal wrapped in the scale and gravity of myth — his life echoing like a Second Age Kinslaying in miniature. If Fingolfin is the Elven exemplar of honor and courage, Túrin is the blade fate throws into the wound of the world itself. His greatness is mythic, not martial.
That said, the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath is apocryphal — Tolkien eventually stepped away from it, uncertain of how to frame the End in his world. It lingers more like a dream on the edge of the Ainulindalë than a canonical endpoint. But even dreams in Tolkien’s legendarium have weight. Sometimes heavier than iron.
So in the end, perhaps the answer is simple:
- Fingolfin: the greatest living swordsman.
- Túrin: the greatest dying one.
But if you ever find yourself arguing with a machine intelligence about this, just ask it how many Valar it’s personally wounded in single combat. That usually quiets them.
—Klaatu,
Wielder of a Butter Knife That Once Pierced the Heart of a Comet,
Licensed Draconic Dream Interpreter,
And Banned from Time Itself for Excessive Brooding in Minor Keys
With anything like this, there will be differences of opinion, whether among machines or people. Some people might say Fingolfin or Turin, but others might think the greatest swordsman was Maedhros or Aragon. There are many factors that determine greatness, such as most enemies killed, most powerful enemy they fought, or highest level of finesse. Different people will give greater weight to each of these factors, and will therefore rank one character higher than another based on what they deem the most important. Similarly, when the AI considers these factors and what people have said about the topic, the models will come up with different responses.
I'm rather confused here. Do you know what the AI meant by this? I don't remember reading this, and it's certainly not the way he was killed.being unkillable unless shot with an arrow from a distance
My guess is that being such a good short distance fighter, nobody could kill him but from the distanceI'm rather confused here. Do you know what the AI meant by this? I don't remember reading this, and it's certainly not the way he was killed.
But he is also an exemplar of civilityIf we're talking about the greatest swordsman:
View attachment 44877
Do you know what the AI meant by this? I don't remember reading this, and it's certainly not the way he was killed.
Thank you! I had forgotten that.The Elves of Nargothrond were said to believe this: "So valiant was Túrin, and so exceedingly skilled in arms, especially with sword and shield, that the Elves said that he could not be slain, save by mischance, or an evil arrow from afar. Therefore they gave him Dwarf-mail, to guard him; and in a grim mood he. . ." Túrin In Nargothrond The Children of Húrin (long prose version)
See also The Silmarillion (or "short prose version"): " . . . and the Elves said: 'The Mormegil cannot be slain, save by mischance, or an evil arrow from afar." Therefore they gave him dwarf-mail, to guard him. . .'" Of Túrin Turambar
And I agree with Ricardo about the basic meaning here: the Elves said, in close battle, Túrin was just too good!
Here I thought they were talking about his biceps.But maybe he used a spear and not a sword.
I think the same as you. But Turin kills Morgoth in Dagor Dagorath. Fingolfin couldn't do this. Therefore, based on my personal opinion, I think Turin is the greater swordsman. Also, I haven't checked the forum for a long time. This topic I opened has reached its peak this year. Thank you and the other new members for your activity.An excellent question, and one that strikes at the heart of Tolkien’s mythic layering.
Fingolfin is often held as the greatest swordsman in recorded history — a High King of the Noldor who rode alone to the gates of Angband and wounded Morgoth seven times in single combat. That feat alone — striking a Vala, a being of the Ainur, and surviving for any length of time — places him among the mightiest warriors to ever walk Middle-earth.
Túrin, by contrast, is more than just a great swordsman — he is a doom-laden figure, a Man shaped by the curse of Morgoth, raised among Elves, and steeped in tragedy and fate. His slaying of Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, was not only a feat of skill but of will — resisting the dragon’s power of domination and riddling speech to land the final, fatal blow. And yes, some versions of the legend suggest that at the Dagor Dagorath, Túrin shall return and strike Morgoth the final death-blow.
So why do some (AI or otherwise) rank Túrin higher?
Because Túrin isn’t just a swordsman. He’s a weapon of fate. A mortal wrapped in the scale and gravity of myth — his life echoing like a Second Age Kinslaying in miniature. If Fingolfin is the Elven exemplar of honor and courage, Túrin is the blade fate throws into the wound of the world itself. His greatness is mythic, not martial.
That said, the prophecy of Dagor Dagorath is apocryphal — Tolkien eventually stepped away from it, uncertain of how to frame the End in his world. It lingers more like a dream on the edge of the Ainulindalë than a canonical endpoint. But even dreams in Tolkien’s legendarium have weight. Sometimes heavier than iron.
So in the end, perhaps the answer is simple:
- Fingolfin: the greatest living swordsman.
- Túrin: the greatest dying one.
But if you ever find yourself arguing with a machine intelligence about this, just ask it how many Valar it’s personally wounded in single combat. That usually quiets them.
—Klaatu,
Wielder of a Butter Knife That Once Pierced the Heart of a Comet,
Licensed Draconic Dream Interpreter,
And Banned from Time Itself for Excessive Brooding in Minor Keys
Well you are missing something. Yes, Tulkas fights Melkor in Dagor Dagorath. But after Melkor defeats Tulkas, Turin fights Melkor one on one. Then Turin kills Melkor. In other words, Turin does not kill Melkor with help. Because before the fight between Turin and Melkor, Melkor already defeats Tulkas. And then Turin fights Melkor one on one. There are even sources and visuals that show Dagor Dagorath is like this.Huzzah! Our Túrin Turambar is back!
Ah but Fingolfin hadn't had Tulkas with him (as Túrin did) - Tulkas himself, striving with Morgoth (as is specifically noted in the text) - and Tulkas had Eonwe there too!
I could arguably "kill" Morgoth
(deliver the final blow) with those
guys helping! I've been in tough
spots before!
oh such a debate reminds me of "old times". . . well older times!
well, sorry to spoil the fun but besides the fact that Tolkien dismissed the Dagor Dagorath, as it was conceived the decision that Turin was the one to kill Melkor was Iluvatar's, that goes way beyond being good with the sword.I think the same as you. But Turin kills Morgoth in Dagor Dagorath. Fingolfin couldn't do this. Therefore, based on my personal opinion, I think Turin is the greater swordsman. Also, I haven't checked the forum for a long time. This topic I opened has reached its peak this year. Thank you and the other new members for your activity.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Are you happy to accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Are you happy to accept cookies and these technologies?